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Minutes, 12 Jan 2009 SVG WG call

From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:06:31 +0100
Message-ID: <793385.20090112220631@w3.org>
To: public-svg-wg@w3.org

Hello public-svg-wg,

Minutes are at http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html

and below as text for trackbot.

                  SVG Working Group Teleconference

12 Jan 2009

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://www.w3.org/mid/20090112005930.GB22797@arc.mcc.id.au

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          [IPcaller], heycam, ed, ChrisL, jwatt, Shepazu, Erik

   Regrets
          Anthony

   Chair
          Cameron

   Scribe
          ChrisL

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Sydney F2F update / agenda
         2. [6]ISSUE-2194: Syntax of some list-type attributes in SVG
            Tiny 1.2 incompatible with those in SVG 1.1
         3. [7]RNG for role attribute / definition of roles for SVG
         4. [8]SVG 1.1 errata / 2ed
         5. [9]ISSUE-2198: Define the EventTarget for ProgressEvents
         6. [10]ISSUE-2199: Underlying transform value erratum now
            conflicts with 1.2T
         7. [11]SVG in HTML
         8. [12]SVG Tiny 1.2 errata to approve
         9. [13]Test suite infrastructure
        10. [14]Actions for people no longer active in WG
        11. [15]MAE
     * [16]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <trackbot> Date: 12 January 2009

   <scribe> Scribe: ChrisL

Sydney F2F update / agenda

   CM: Anthony not here. Assume most folk know where it is, have hotel
   etc. Will ping him

   CL: Will I be able to dial into the meeting? I can't travel

   DS: I have a skype phone bridge and could bring that. Need to call
   in using skype
   ... Leonard also may want to dial in

   CL: an australian phone number to call would also work for me

ISSUE-2194: Syntax of some list-type attributes in SVG Tiny 1.2
incompatible with those in SVG 1.1

   issue-2194?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2194 -- Syntax of some list-type attributes in SVG
   Tiny 1.2 incompatible with those in SVG 1.1 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2194

     [17] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2194

   C: Looked at 1.1 and 1.2T attributes that take lists, also comparing
   what implementations accept. surprising variability in what they
   accept

   DS: Are they strict or lax?

   <heycam> [18]http://mcc.id.au/2009/01/svg-list-attributes/

     [18] http://mcc.id.au/2009/01/svg-list-attributes/

   CM: mainly lax, not requiring spaces. Stared making a table to show
   the results of this investigation

   DS: Please add a key
   ... need to describe what multiple commas mean

   CM: Common to see transform with zero comma-wsp but spec say
   multiple comma-wsp

   CL: Prefer not to specify ,,, as error because we could allow sparse
   lists

   DS: Ikivo had trailing semicolons as silently ignored
   ... Need to specify what the unspecified values are if we define it

   CL: Yes it depends what its a list of

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris to run tests from
   [19]http://mcc.id.au/2009/01/svg-list-attributes/ on Bitflash and
   Ikivo [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action01]

     [19] http://mcc.id.au/2009/01/svg-list-attributes/

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2392 - Run tests from
   [21]http://mcc.id.au/2009/01/svg-list-attributes/ on Bitflash and
   Ikivo [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-01-19].

     [21] http://mcc.id.au/2009/01/svg-list-attributes/

   This discussion relates to ACTION-2391

RNG for role attribute / definition of roles for SVG

   <heycam> [22]http://www.w3.org/mid/431565625.20090108194301@w3.org

     [22] http://www.w3.org/mid/431565625.20090108194301@w3.org

   <heycam> CL: role is already in the rng for 1.2T

   <heycam> CL: we need to liaise with WAI people to come up with roles
   for maps/charts/etc.

   <heycam> CL: andreas might be helpful for that, roles for maps

   <heycam> CL: less clear who's the community to ask about charts

   <heycam> CL: start outreach, find out what the accessibility/domain
   specific people need

   <heycam> CL: i think we should be publishing a note which lists
   roles to use

   <heycam> CL: it's clearly not an exhaustive list, you can come up
   with new roles

   <heycam> CL: for common things, we want them to use these roles we
   list

   <heycam> CL: kicking this off to the IG, at least for the maps one,
   would be a good idea

   <heycam> CL: talk also to semweb people

   <heycam> CL: but keep it concrete

   <heycam> CL: we need to get the accessibility people to talk to the
   domain experts, too

   <heycam> DS: by accessibility people, WAI members

   This relates to ACTION-2036

   ACTION-2036?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2036 -- Chris Lilley to work with WAI PF for SVG
   domain-specific role values. -- due 2008-05-29 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2036

     [23] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2036

SVG 1.1 errata / 2ed

   CL: Don't have any actions related to errata

   ED; No progress yet on my actions there

   JW: Not sure if I do

   DS: Not yet
   ... There was one erratum regarding character cell that you raised
   ... we could talk more about that. SVGT1.2 cleans it up, erratum
   should use same wording

   JW: Sure, we can discuss that

ISSUE-2198: Define the EventTarget for ProgressEvents

   <heycam> [24]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2198

     [24] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2198

   issue-2198?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2198 -- Define the EventTarget for ProgressEvents
   -- RAISED

   <trackbot> [25]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2198

     [25] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2198

   ED: Need to define target of any progress event. We dont ref the
   spec itself bt also we dont dfefine the target and clearly we should

   DS: Liked the wording you proposed

   CL: Liked the wording too

   ED: So this is a 1.2T erratum?

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to add 1.2T erratum on eventTarget for
   ProgressEvents [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2393 - Add 1.2T erratum on eventTarget for
   ProgressEvents [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-01-19].

ISSUE-2199: Underlying transform value erratum now conflicts with 1.2T

   issue-2199?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2199 -- Underlying transform value erratum now
   conflicts with 1.2T -- RAISED

   <trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2199

     [27] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2199

   CM: Mozilla pointed out that ther eis a conflict

   <ed>
   [28]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#cleanup-w
   ording-underlying-value

     [28] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#cleanup-wording-underlying-value

   CM: erratum came out of discussions with Dr. Olaf. Scale 0 not scale
   1. Wording in 1.1e was from 1.2T before we agreed with Olaf. So
   needs an update

   ED: Clear we intended to align with 1.2 so we should update it to
   match

   CL: Its a fairly localised change

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to update 1.1 erratum on underlying
   transform values to match 1.2T [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2394 - Update 1.1 erratum on underlying
   transform values to match 1.2T [on Cameron McCormack - due
   2009-01-19].

SVG in HTML

   DS: Please put that table in the wiki to allow others to collaborate

   ED: Tables a pita to create in wiki syntax

   CM: Allows easier comparison with what WhatWG is doing there

   ED: Have been reading the HTML5 parse algorithm on errors, etc

   DS: See they now allow font element, what about metadata

   ED: Since they dissaalow other namespaces, you can't put RDF in the
   metadata element

   DS: probably intentional

   <heycam>
   javascript:(function(){%20document.body.innerHTML%20+=%20%22<style>.
   comment%20{%20color:green;%20font-style:italic;%20display:inline;%20
   margin-left:0;%20}</style>%22;%20function%20reveal(comment)%20{%20va
   r%20pre%20=%20document.createElement(%22pre%22);%20pre.className%20=
   %20%22comment%22;%20pre.textContent%20=%20%22<!--%22%20+%20comment.n
   odeValue%20+%20%22-->%22;%20comment.parentNode.replaceChild(pre,%20c
   omment);%20}%20var%20comments%20=%20document.evaluate(%22//

   <heycam>
   comment()%22,%20document,%20null,%20XPathResult.ORDERED_NODE_SNAPSHO
   T_TYPE,%20null);%20for%20(var%20i%20=%200;%20i%20<%20comments.snapsh
   otLength;%20++i)%20{%20reveal(comments.snapshotItem(i));%20}%20})()

   comment()%22,%20document,%20null,%20XPathResult.ORDERED_NODE_SNAPSHO
   T_TYPE,%20null);%20for%20(var%20i%20=%200;%20i%20<%20comments.snapsh
   otLength;%20++i)%20{%20reveal(comments.snapshotItem(i));%20}%20})()

   [30]http://tinyurl.com/unhide

     [30] http://tinyurl.com/unhide

   CM: Who will take the action to look at what HTML WG parsing
   proposal is, document it and compare with ours

   DS: Their description is pretty hard to follow

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to look at what HTML WG parsing proposal
   is, document it and compare with ours [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2395 - look at what HTML WG parsing
   proposal is, document it and compare with ours [on Cameron McCormack
   - due 2009-01-19].

   DS: Maybe ask Phillip Taylor about that?

SVG Tiny 1.2 errata to approve

   <heycam>
   [32]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#glyph-d-at
   tr

     [32] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#glyph-d-attr

   <heycam>
   [33]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#asyncstatu
   scallback-function

     [33] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/errata/errata.xml#asyncstatuscallback-function

   CL: First one is obviously correct

   CM: Need to clarify that a plain ecmascript funtion rather thana
   property can be used. Copied text from event listener

   ED: Looks good to me

   CM: It widens what can be passed, and also btw the test suite
   already assumes this erratum

   Rseolution: both errata are approved

   Resolution: both errata are approved

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to add those two errata to the 1.2T errata
   [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2396 - Add those two errata to the 1.2T
   errata [on Cameron McCormack - due 2009-01-19].

   ED: i had a small one about progress events

   <ed>
   [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/002
   8.html

     [35] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009JanMar/0028.html

   I think the omission is an oversight, not a deliberate omission

   DS: in favour of adding them

   CL: me too

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to add 'loadstart', 'progress' and 'loadend'
   as animation events [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action06]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2397 - Add 'loadstart', 'progress' and
   'loadend' as animation events [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-01-19].

   CL: Better to say all events are allowed except one that need a
   contaxt

   ED: Such as mousewheel, needs a direction

   CL: Doesn't progress itself need a context?

   ED: Keyup/down as well
   ... prgress can be used to indicate progress even if the amount is
   not known

   DS: In future we might want to add parameters to animations to allow
   that sort of info to be passeed

Test suite infrastructure

   ACTION-2373 is obseleted by an action on Erik to copy and then merge
   in 1.2T fixes

   close ACTION-2373

   <trackbot> ACTION-2373 Ask Mike Smith to move the tests from old
   archive to the new archive closed

   I dont see eriks action

   ED: Due to template changes, diff would be the entire file

   CL: Thought we were only diffing the actual group with the test, not
   the whoole file

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to copy the 1.1 test suite to 1.1SE tests,
   then diff and merge in any relevant 1.2T fixes [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action07]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2398 - Copy the 1.1 test suite to 1.1SE
   tests, then diff and merge in any relevant 1.2T fixes [on Erik
   Dahlström - due 2009-01-19].

Actions for people no longer active in WG

   Atanas (Tony) Zlatinski

   [38]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users/42284

     [38] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users/42284

   two of those are old and concern previous discussions on html
   parsing

   close action-2034

   <trackbot> ACTION-2034 Draft a proposal for the 3 phase parse model
   and the SACs based parse model closed

   close action-2061

   <trackbot> ACTION-2061 Modify the cascading parser diagram closed

   [39]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/1.2/Tiny/ImpReport.html

     [39] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/1.2/Tiny/ImpReport.html

   close action-2260

   <trackbot> ACTION-2260 Fix Bitflash implementation to pass fragid
   tests such as linking-frag-203-t.svg closed

   close action-2265

   <trackbot> ACTION-2265 Fix Bitflash impl. to pass media-video-202-t
   closed

   close action-2267

   <trackbot> ACTION-2267 Fix Bitflash impl to pass
   styling-inherit-03-t.svg closed

MAE

   ED: Andy was going to update the spec for publication

   close ACTION-2264

   <trackbot> ACTION-2264 Fix Ikovo impl. to pass media-video-202-t
   closed

   <scribe> ACTION: Doug see if Niklas wants to finish up MAE [recorded
   in [40]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action08]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2399 - See if Niklas wants to finish up
   MAE [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-01-19].

   <ed__> ACTION-2269?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2269 -- Niklas Hagelroth to look into fixing
   udom-glob-1 to 3 -- due 2008-10-09 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [41]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2269

     [41] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2269

   see ACTION-2354

   ACTION-2354?

   <trackbot> ACTION-2354 -- Niklas Hagelroth to have torkel email Doug
   about MAE -- due 2008-11-27 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [42]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2354

     [42] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2354

   ED we could close ACTION-2269 as we removed the first udom glob test
   and fixed the other two

   close ACTION-2269

   <trackbot> ACTION-2269 Look into fixing udom-glob-1 to 3 closed

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to look at what HTML WG parsing proposal is,
   document it and compare with ours [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to add those two errata to the 1.2T errata
   [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to update 1.1 erratum on underlying transform
   values to match 1.2T [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Chris to run tests from
   [46]http://mcc.id.au/2009/01/svg-list-attributes/ on Bitflash and
   Ikivo [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Doug see if Niklas wants to finish up MAE [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: Erik to add 'loadstart', 'progress' and 'loadend' as
   animation events [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: Erik to add 1.2T erratum on eventTarget for
   ProgressEvents [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Erik to copy the 1.1 test suite to 1.1SE tests, then
   diff and merge in any relevant 1.2T fixes [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/12-svg-minutes.html#action07]

     [46] http://mcc.id.au/2009/01/svg-list-attributes/

   [End of minutes]


-- 
 Chris Lilley                    mailto:chris@w3.org
 Technical Director, Interaction Domain
 W3C Graphics Activity Lead
 Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
Received on Monday, 12 January 2009 21:06:41 GMT

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