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Minutes, June 19, 2008 telcon

From: Cameron McCormack <cam@mcc.id.au>
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:06:06 +1000
To: public-svg-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <20080619120606.GC22416@arc.mcc.id.au>

http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html
and as text below for those hungry, hungry hippos^Wbots:


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                   SVG Working Group Teleconference

19 Jun 2008

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0144.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Doug_Schepers, anthony, ed, heycam

   Regrets
   Chair
          SV_MEETING_CHAIR

   Scribe
          Cameron

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]SVG IG
         2. [6]Public CVS transition
         3. [7]Testsuite publication
         4. [8]1.1 errata
         5. [9]SVG in HTML
         6. [10]Script executing under progressive rendering
         7. [11]Behaviour of SVGLengthList.replaceItem()
         8. [12]Issues and actions
         9. [13]ISSUE-2004
     * [14]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <trackbot> Date: 19 June 2008

   <scribe> Scribe: Cameron

   <scribe> ScribeNick: heycam

SVG IG

   DS: i met with jeff schiller, who is the co-chair of the SVG IG,
   along with me
   ... he and i have been working on the wiki and we plan on having a
   meeting next thursday

   <shepazu> [15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/wiki/Meeting_2008-06

     [15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/wiki/Meeting_2008-06

   DS: we want to basically have a very focussed set of first meetings
   ... one thing that the wiki page doesn't mention is the idea of the
   "japanese chapter"
   ... i'll dedicate a page on the wiki to that

   ED: so the acid test stuff, that's possible future activities, why?

   DS: this is svg acid tests
   ... why future and not current? because a good acid test will take a
   while to build. and we don't want to intimidate people.
   ... we want to set a relatively simple goal and meet it and then
   move on to the next relatively simple goal
   ... and build up into more complex goals
   ... fwiw jeff's already started on it
   ... we have a number of members

   <shepazu> [16]http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=42368

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=42368

   DS: we're hoping to get more
   ... specifically, we're hoping to get more designers

Public CVS transition

   ED: any progress?

   DS: i've made some limited progress

   <shepazu> [17]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/

     [17] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/

   DS: haven't started moving the files over yet
   ... i was hoping that people owning particular modules would move
   them over
   ... I guess i can just move 1.2 tiny over directly

   CM: the tiny build scripts have dependencies outside the 1.2T
   directory

   DS: ultimately we'll have to fix the scripts

   <anthony> [18]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2002

     [18] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2002

   DS: tony, you have a related action to look at scripts and
   consolidate them?

   AG: that's the action
   ... how soon?

   DS: next three weeks?

   AG: i'd probably just copy the directory over to the new CVS,
   without checking it in, then get the script running locally first,
   then commit it
   ... don't think it'd be too difficult

   DS: since we're working in public i'm eager to get everything in
   public
   ... especially because people will be wanting to see why we're
   making changes in the test suite

   ED: so could we expect 1.2T to be moved over by some time next week?

   DS: test suite?

   ED: no but that would be good to move over too

   DS: to start off with i could move the publish/ directory over

   AG: the script doesn't look like it does anything too fancy
   ... it doesn't do too much "../../"ing

   CM: the idl one might though

   DS: somebody said there were some tricky bits. each individual spec
   had some specialised "bits".

   ED: that's what anthony's action is yes, finding the common parts?

   DS: right

   ED: to clarify, who is moving the spec over?

   DS: i will take the action to move over the publish/ directory
   ... should we have a 'spec/' directory in 1.2T/ ?

   AG: we have master/ and publish/
   ... don't check anything into the tools/ directory yet

   DS: i'll add a master/ and publish/ directory to 1.2T/
   ... i'll move over some of the published stuff, like the in-cvs
   published 1.2T spec

   <scribe> ACTION: Doug to create a publish/ and master/ directory in
   CVS, and to copy over the current contents of the 1.2T publish/
   directory to dev.w3.org [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2069 - Create a publish/ and master/
   directory in CVS, and to copy over the current contents of the 1.2T
   publish/ directory to dev.w3.org [on Doug Schepers - due
   2008-06-26].

   DS: and transition of the test suite?
   ... where should that go?
   ... under 1.2T/, yes?
   ... 1.2T/test/

   CM: keeping the same structure in the test suite directory? (like
   svg, svggen, etc.)

   AG: yeah

   (we decide to hold off on migrating the test suite for now)

Testsuite publication

   DS: i will do it today

   ED: the link from the wiki page is incorrect; it links to the old
   one

   DS: andrew put that link in there and asked me to correct it when
   it's published, which i'll do

   AG: is it easy enough to publish?

   DS: chrisl says if you upload a lot at once, it gets confused

1.1 errata

   ED: i edited errata.xml today, so i'd like to discuss my addition

   <ed>
   [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/014
   3.html

     [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0143.html

   <ed>
   [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xm
   l#svgtextcontentelement_clarifications

     [21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#svgtextcontentelement_clarifications

   ED: we discussed last time why an exception is thrown for negative
   method parameters, even though the type is unsigned
   ... so i'm wondering if this is something we should fix at all,
   because there might be differences in different languages
   ... maybe even which type of exception is thrown
   ... so i'm suggesting to keep what we have
   ... i only made some minor corrections in the errata item

   CM: can you summarise?

   ED: there are exceptions raised for negative first parameter of
   getSubStringLength(), or if the number of characters you try to
   measure is greater than the characters in the node
   ... this will be changed so that if you pass length longer than the
   string that it will be clipped to the number of characters that are
   there
   ... this will make it similar to selectSubString()

   <ed> If nchars specifies more characters than are available, then
   the substring will consist of all characters starting with charnum
   until the end of the list of characters.

   ED: so it won't raise an exception any more if you give a very large
   value for nchars
   ... still raising exception if you use negative values for the
   first, and a new exception if you use a negative value for the
   second
   ... next change is that it wasn't clear when you have characters
   that can't be separated (surrogate pairs, glyphs that map to
   multiple characters)
   ... now it says the range is expanded to include the whole glyph
   ... in selectSubString(), there is the change to raise an exception
   if the second parameter is negative
   ... and in getSubStringLength(), it raises an exception if you pass
   in a starting character number that is larger than the number of
   characters in the node
   ... I have a test case too, linked from the errata item
   ... it tests everything in getSubStringLength(), and i'm going to
   add a test for selectSubString() too
   ... so i propose we move this errata item to proposed

   CM: UTF-16 codepoints vs characters?

   ED: there's one errata for getNumberOfChars() that uses the
   codepoint language

   ISSUE: All of the SVGTextContentElement methods should be referring
   to UTF-16 codepoints instead of characters, in SVG 1.1

   <trackbot> Created ISSUE-2008 - All of the SVGTextContentElement
   methods should be referring to UTF-16 codepoints instead of
   characters, in SVG 1.1 ; please complete additional details at
   [22]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2008/edit .

     [22] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2008/edit

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to fix ISSUE-2008 by adding an errata item
   that adds a paragraph at the start of SVGTextContentElement about
   it, and change the getNumberOfChars() one back to using the word
   "characters" [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2070 - Fix ISSUE-2008 by adding an errata
   item that adds a paragraph at the start of SVGTextContentElement
   about it, and change the getNumberOfChars() one back to using the
   word \"characters\" [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-06-26].

   RESOLUTION: we move ed's SVGTextContentElement errata item to
   propose

   trackbot, close ACTION-2010

   <trackbot> ACTION-2010 Clarify/errata for text DOM methods in SVG
   1.1, specify that unrendered characters don't contribute to the
   computation; remove exceptions of getSubStringLength; clarify about
   unseparable characters closed

   trackbot, you rule

   <trackbot> Sorry, heycam, I don't understand 'trackbot, you rule'.
   Please refer to [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

     [24] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

   ED: publishing the errata?

   CM: how about after i do my one

SVG in HTML

   DS: some initial discussion on #html-wg, a few substantive comments
   ... there are two separate proposals, which wasn't so clear
   ... there are some jargon terms in there that aren't defined clearly
   enough
   ... some confusion about where something in handled (in the parser,
   tokenizer, whereever)
   ... so we'll have to work on it

   AG: it is a draft, after all

   DS: there were some comments saying that tony's proposal wouldn't
   achieve some of the things we were hoping for (e.g. attribute
   quoting, well-formedness)
   ... and a comment about where it breaks out from the content
   ... so those are the things we'll have to tighten up

   ED: so that's not in CVS yet?

   DS: maybe i'll make a separate directory for proposals

   ED: so we should go through the proposal offline

Script executing under progressive rendering

   [25]http://www.w3.org/mid/20080616054241.GB29149@arc.mcc.id.au

     [25] http://www.w3.org/mid/20080616054241.GB29149@arc.mcc.id.au

   <ed>
   [26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/013
   3.html

     [26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0133.html

   CM: blah blah <script> order of execution...

   (we decide that the important point is that <script> elements
   execute in document order)

   (modulo insertion of new <script> elements into the document)

   CM: so i'll propose some text for that as part of my ACTION-2063

Behaviour of SVGLengthList.replaceItem()

   <ed>
   [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/014
   1.html

     [27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0141.html

   CM: tested some implementations, none are the same

   ED: maybe we can ask the svg community

   I think the index is probably the index of the item to be replaced
   before

   the new item has been removed from its current list.

   -- Jeff Schiller

   ED: i'm happy either way, but would like to choose the more
   intuitive one

   CM: sounds good to me

   AG: somebody should reply to jeff saying we decided that way

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to errata replaceItem() to make the index be
   before the removal of the argument item in the list, and to reply to
   jeff on www-svg [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2071 - Errata replaceItem() to make the
   index be before the removal of the argument item in the list, and to
   reply to jeff on www-svg [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-26].

Issues and actions

   <ed> [29]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/2

     [29] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/2

   ED: two open issues, no actions assigned

   trackbot, ISSUE-2003?

   <trackbot> Sorry, heycam, I don't understand 'trackbot,
   ISSUE-2003?'. Please refer to
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

   ISSUE-2003?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2003 -- Resolving IRIs for Resource Documents --
   RAISED

   <trackbot> [31]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2003

     [31] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2003

   <scribe> ACTION: Erik to check what Opera does with ISSUE-2003
   [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2072 - Check what Opera does with
   ISSUE-2003 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-26].

ISSUE-2004

   CM: how about making the udom default to throwing an exception when
   NaN or Infinity is passed in to a float parameter?
   ... and then override that in a method description if we need to
   ... maybe not throwing for setFloatTrait()? because traits we define
   later might use those values?

   ED: i think we throw for that method already

   <ed> DOMException TYPE_MISMATCH_ERR: Raised if the requested trait's
   value cannot be specified as a numeric float (e.g. NaN).

   <ed> setFloatTrait

   <ed> (that's the CR version of the spec)

   CM: is Infinity numeric? :)

   <scribe> ACTION: Cameron to investigate existing uses of float in
   the 1.2T IDL for ISSUE-2004, to see which ones should throw and
   which shouldn't [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2073 - Investigate existing uses of float
   in the 1.2T IDL for ISSUE-2004, to see which ones should throw and
   which shouldn't [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-06-26].

   (we all agree to be more responsive on www-svg :))

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to fix ISSUE-2008 by adding an errata item
   that adds a paragraph at the start of SVGTextContentElement about
   it, and change the getNumberOfChars() one back to using the word
   "characters" [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Cameron to investigate existing uses of float in the
   1.2T IDL for ISSUE-2004, to see which ones should throw and which
   shouldn't [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: Doug to create a publish/ and master/ directory in
   CVS, and to copy over the current contents of the 1.2T publish/
   directory to dev.w3.org [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Erik to check what Opera does with ISSUE-2003
   [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Erik to errata replaceItem() to make the index be
   before the removal of the argument item in the list, and to reply to
   jeff on www-svg [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html#action03]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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Agenda: [42]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJu
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     [42] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0144.html

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Found Date: 19 Jun 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [43]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html
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     [43] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-svg-minutes.html

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-- 
Cameron McCormack ≝ http://mcc.id.au/
Received on Thursday, 19 June 2008 12:06:55 GMT

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