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Minutes, SVG telcon Tuesday 13 May 2008

From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 22:08:13 +1000
Message-ID: <482984AD.9000507@cisra.canon.com.au>
To: "public-svg-wg@w3.org" <public-svg-wg@w3.org>


http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html

---


    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

13 May 2008

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0032.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Andrew, Andreas, Anthony, Chris, Erik

    Regrets
           Cameron

    Chair
           Erik

    Scribe
           Andrew Emmons, Andrew

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]JSR Coordination Issues
          2. [6]Path normalization close command
          3. [7]Initial response for font-style issue
          4. [8]Font-family selection
          5. [9]Issue-334
          6. [10]ISSUE-337
          7. [11]Libre graphics
      * [12]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot-ng> Date: 13 May 2008

    <scribe> Scribe: Andrew Emmons

    <scribe> ScribeNick: aemmons

    <ChrisL> trackbot-ng, status

JSR Coordination Issues

    <ChrisL> Scribe: Andrew

    <ChrisL> ScribeNick: aemmons

    <ed>
    [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0055.h
    tml

      [13] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0055.html

    CL: We said it would just be traits, but you cannot access
    everyhitng with just traits so we added get/set attribute
    ... We got comfortable with get/setAttribute. The issue is if they
    can normalize. With DOM 3 they can
    ... We say normalization will happen in SVGT 1.2
    ... Can't put 7 spaces, value and do getAttribute and expect spaces
    ... Whay do they want it removed

    ED: They were added at the request of CDF

    CL: Ok, so it's the same as setAttributeNS but using null
    ... Worrying about what happens when you get a qualified attribute
    ... If you as for href, do you get xlink:href or only an unnames
    attribute called href?
    ... Most attributes we have are unqualified
    ... Most of our attribures are in the unnamed namespace
    ... I do not see their examples as counter-intuitive
    ... As their example increases, it gets confusing

    DS: We should ask them to join a telcon

    CL: I don't understand how they are getting the answers they do
    ... Think we need to respond to their e-mail asking for
    clarifications

    <scribe> ACTION: Aemmons to write JSR 287 EG and ask for
    clarification [recorded in
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2011 - Write JSR 287 EG and ask for
    clarification [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-05-20].

Path normalization close command

    <ed>
    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/001
    5.html

      [15] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0015.html

    ED: Discussed this in previous telcon

    CL: Saw a concern that if path added an extra line it would affect
    interpolation of path data because there is an extra segment

    DS: Also affects semantics of it. Script trying to detect if
    something was a closed path might have more difficulty

    ED: I wasn't saying you remove the close command, but close command
    interpreted as a lineTo

    DS: I think adding a 'z' is enough

    ED: Yes, the spec says if the end path is not the same as the start,
    you do a lineTo the start
    ... But am fine either way
    ... No strong opinion

    CL: Would like to see what implementations do
    ... Would like to see a test. One with implicit close one without
    ... Investigate a bit what implementations do

    DS: What implementations do we expect to test?

    CL: is the normalization aspect part of 1.1?

    ED: Partly, it says these are the allowed commands but does not
    mandate how it is done

    CL: It is now a problem because now we have internal normilization
    exposed ( what is in the DOM )
    ... 1.2 Tiny implementations but worth it to investigate 1.1 as
    well, the interpolation aspect at least

    DS: I ask because I do not use these as an author ( Path DOM ) for
    1.1

    CL: Test 2 paths, see if they interpolate, no DOM used there
    ... Separately, another which has a path and then uses DOM to
    display segments

    DS: Might be best to simply specify something and notify
    implementations.
    ... If we're finding this now, seems like a minor issue

    CL: I don't think so.
    ... Certainly worth testing the interpolation with 1.1

    <scribe> ACTION: Andreas to create two tests for normalizing 'z'.
    One with interpolation with 1.1, another with path DOM. Note one
    exists already for 1.2 DOM [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2012 - Create two tests for normalizing
    'z'. One with interpolation with 1.1, another with path DOM. Note
    one exists already for 1.2 DOM [on Andreas Neumann - due
    2008-05-20].

    RESOLUTION: We will investigate quickly the issues, hopefully by the
    F2F meeting

Initial response for font-style issue

    <ed>
    [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Apr/0070.html

      [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Apr/0070.html

    <ed>
    [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/003
    3.html

      [18] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0033.html

    ED: Cameron suggests fixing our free font to have an italic version

    CL: Sure, font exists, we could use it
    ... All doesn't mean it guarentees it has bold/italic, it means it's
    really not telling you what it has
    ... A agree, having italic as well would be good, and font-style.
    But those are specific responses to the test

    AE: IN other words, there needsw to still be some clarification

    CL: I don't mind responding

    <scribe> ACTION: Chris to respond to Kalle regarding font-style
    issue [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2013 - Respond to Kalle regarding
    font-style issue [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-05-20].

Font-family selection

    <ed>
    [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Apr/0069.html

      [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Apr/0069.html

    CL: Again, requires some possible clarification in the spec.
    ... I strated to look at this and collect the relevant pieces.

    <ChrisL> [21]http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#aname

      [21] http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#aname

    <ChrisL> A full font name would be Helvetica-BoldItalic

    <ChrisL> a font family name would be helvetica

    CL: A lot of Adobe tools get this wrong

    <ed> [22]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/fonts.html#FontFaceNameElement
    doesn't really say anything about what it is

      [22] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/fonts.html#FontFaceNameElement

    <scribe> ACTION: Chris to review font-family selection e-mail, bring
    issues back to the group for discussion [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2014 - Review font-family selection
    e-mail, bring issues back to the group for discussion [on Chris
    Lilley - due 2008-05-20].

    <ed>
    [24]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/fonts.html#FontFaceSrcElement
    compare to
    [25]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/fonts.html#FontFaceSrcElement :)

      [24] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/fonts.html#FontFaceSrcElement
      [25] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/fonts.html#FontFaceSrcElement

    ED: SVG 1.2 has a better definition

    [26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/products/13

      [26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/products/13

    ISSUE-272

    [27]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/272

      [27] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/272

    <scribe> ACTION: Aemmons to make suggested changes discussed in
    issue-272 [recorded in
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2015 - Make suggested changes discussed
    in issue-272 [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-05-20].

    <ed> [29]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/334

      [29] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/334

Issue-334

    [30]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/334

      [30] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/334

    ED: Agree, would be nice to have some combined tests (
    scripting/animation )

    <scribe> ACTION: Anthony to create test with both animation and
    scripting [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action06]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2016 - Create test with both animation
    and scripting [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-05-20].

    <ChrisL> eg an animation from red to yellow, half way through a
    script changes red to blue on the element so the animation now goes
    from blue to yellow

ISSUE-337

    [32]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/337

      [32] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/337

    <ed> [33]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/337

      [33] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/337

    <scribe> ACTION: CHange test as discussed in issue-337 [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action07]

    <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - CHange

    <scribe> ACTION: Aemmons to CHange test as discussed in issue-337
    [recorded in
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action08]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2017 - CHange test as discussed in
    issue-337 [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-05-20].

    [36]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage

      [36] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestCoverage

Libre graphics

    <ChrisL>
    [37]http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2008/index.php?lang=en&action=pr
    ogram

      [37] 
http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2008/index.php?lang=en&action=program

    CL: Conference in Wroc?aw
    ... Had a talk on SVG
    ... Much of useful stuff. A lot of Inkscape guys
    ... Talked to the implementer of filters
    ... Designer there with a demo of Inkscape

    <shepazu> s/Poland/Wroc?aw, Poland, Poland/

    CL: Mostly developers on opensource projects
    ... Everyone is using SVG
    ... Was useful being there to give answers
    ... Interesting presentation - designers who showed how they work
    with free software
    ... Inkscape, Scribus. SVG as common exchange format
    ... SVG generated by databases via script
    ... Eventualy target CYMK print
    ... Using flowing text feature
    ... Both are interested in support for ICC color and SVG Print
    ... Talk on WebFonts - interesting but used to giving the talk to
    designers
    ... Demoed video fonts in Raindow
    ... Showed BitFlash with video tests from testsuite
    ... A lot of questions about 1.2
    ... Not just a mobile spec
    ... Explained module architecture
    ... They are excited about vector Effects
    ... Promoted SVG IG
    ... Got interviewed by designers who are interested in 'process'
    ... Go out as a podcast
    ... Said W3C has way to involve Engineers, Managers and Lawyers.
    Working on Designers
    ... Getting dialogue, etc
    ... I spoke with Liam, talking about XSL and SVG to work closely
    ... Want to know how to do padding which is not rectangular
    ... Going to propose somehting to the XSL group
    ... It was very productive
    ... Totally free conference

    <ChrisL> [38]http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2008/index.php?lang=en

      [38] http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2008/index.php?lang=en

    <ChrisL> [39]http://pledgie.com/campaigns/613

      [39] http://pledgie.com/campaigns/613

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Aemmons to CHange test as discussed in issue-337
    [recorded in
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action08]
    [NEW] ACTION: Aemmons to make suggested changes discussed in
    issue-272 [recorded in
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: Aemmons to write JSR 287 EG and ask for clarification
    [recorded in
    [42]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Andreas to create two tests for normalizing 'z'. One
    with interpolation with 1.1, another with path DOM. Note one exists
    already for 1.2 DOM [recorded in
    [43]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Anthony to create test with both animation and
    scripting [recorded in
    [44]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action06]
    [NEW] ACTION: CHange test as discussed in issue-337 [recorded in
    [45]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action07]
    [NEW] ACTION: Chris to respond to Kalle regarding font-style issue
    [recorded in
    [46]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Chris to review font-family selection e-mail, bring
    issues back to the group for discussion [recorded in
    [47]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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     $Date: 2008/05/13 12:05:52 $
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      [48] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [49] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/string/strong/
Succeeded: s/glue/blue/
Succeeded: s/Poland/Wroc?aw/
FAILED: s/Poland/Wroc?aw, Poland/
Succeeded: s/Wroc?aw/Wroc?aw, Poland/
Succeeded: s/scribous/Scribus/
Found Scribe: Andrew Emmons
Found ScribeNick: aemmons
Found Scribe: Andrew
Found ScribeNick: aemmons
Scribes: Andrew Emmons, Andrew
Present: Andrew Andreas Anthony Chris Erik
Regrets: Cameron
Agenda: [51]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJu
n/0032.html
Found Date: 13 May 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [52]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: aemmons andreas anthony change chris

      [51] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0032.html
      [52] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/13-svg-minutes.html

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