- From: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 13:58:14 -0500
- To: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
- Cc: SVG-A11y TF <public-svg-a11y@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <201603041903.u24J3GDg023814@d01av02.pok.ibm.com>
Joanie,
I understand what you are saying but I don't interpret it the same way. My
interpretation is that if the current node can calculate the needed value
without visiting a node already visited in the calculation chain, it should
calculate and use the value. In my opinion, the only condition that needs
worrying about is getting stuck in recursion. In the case we have you
don't get stuck in a recursive loop.
I can put it on the agenda for the SVG a11y TF, but this is really an ARIA
question. Do we have clear guidance on this?
Regards,
Fred Esch
Watson, IBM, W3C
Accessibility
IBM Watson Watson Release Management and Quality
From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
To: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: SVG-A11y TF <public-svg-a11y@w3.org>
Date: 03/04/2016 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: svg accessibility tests
Hey Fred.
On 03/04/2016 11:13 AM, Fred Esch wrote:
> Joanie,
>
> That calculation is done based on the core AAC below, emphasis is mine.
>
> 4.3 Text Alternative Computation
> <
http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_te
>
>
> Text alternatives are built up, when appropriate, from all the relevant
> content contained within an element. This is accomplished via steps 2B
> and 2F, which are recursive, *using the full set of rules*to retrieve
> text from its own children or nodes it references.
The full set of rules also include a statement that you only do the
processing if "the current node is not already a part of an
{aria-labelledby,aria-describedby} traversal. See issue-1008.
[...]
> Reasoning is inline below. If my interpretation is wrong, please let me
> know. If it is unclear what should happen please mention this and we can
> bring it up as an agenda item.
I think your interpretation may indeed be wrong. Again, see issue-1008.
[...]
>> In the meantime, please refresh my memory regarding what happened with
>> the recursive labelledby/describedby. Shouldn't this test:
>>
>> // two valid idrefs, one with an aria-label, one with aria-labelledby
>> if given
>> <circle id="test" aria-labelledby="t1 t2" cx='50' cy='100' r='15'/>
>> <text id="t1" x="40" y="90"aria-label="big">the</text>
>> <text id="t2" x="140" y="90" aria-labelledby='t3'>end</text>
>> <text id="t3"x="180" y="90">finish</text>
>> then accessible name = "big finish"
>>
>> have accessible name of "big end"?
>
> *the element with id t1 would contribute **/big/** *
Agreed.
> *the element with id t2 would contribute **/finish/** because of the
> aria-labeledby.*
Disagreed.
Looking at
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_description
2B:
This part is true:
if computing a name, and the current node has a non-empty
aria-labelledby attribute
However, this part is false:
and the current node is not already part of an aria-labelledby
traversal
The current node (t2) IS already part of an aria-labelledby traversal,
namely the node with id="test" with aria-labelledby="t1 t2".
Because of the above condition failing, we cannot do this bit:
process its IDREFs in the order they occur
Instead, we wind up having to use the text, namely "end".
--joanie
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<html><body><p>Joanie,<br><br>I understand what you are saying but I don't interpret it the same way. My interpretation is that if the current node can calculate the needed value without visiting a node already visited in the calculation chain, it should calculate and use the value. In my opinion, the only condition that needs worrying about is getting stuck in recursion. In the case we have you don't get stuck in a recursive loop. <br><br>I can put it on the agenda for the SVG a11y TF, but this is really an ARIA question. Do we have clear guidance on this? <br><br><br><br>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="473" colspan="2" valign="middle"><div align="center"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Regards, <br><br>Fred Esch <br>Watson, IBM, W3C Accessibility</font></div></td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><td width="130" valign="middle"><img src="cid:1__=0ABBF5FFDFF5041E8f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" width="163" height="23" alt="IBM Watson" align="bottom"></td><td width="342" valign="middle"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Watson Release Management and Quality </font></td></tr></table><br><br><img width="16" height="16" src="cid:2__=0ABBF5FFDFF5041E8f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" border="0" alt="Inactive hide details for Joanmarie Diggs ---03/04/2016 12:11:52 PM---Hey Fred. On 03/04/2016 11:13 AM, Fred Esch wrote:"><font color="#424282">Joanmarie Diggs ---03/04/2016 12:11:52 PM---Hey Fred. On 03/04/2016 11:13 AM, Fred Esch wrote:</font><br><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">From: </font><font size="2">Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com></font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">To: </font><font size="2">Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Cc: </font><font size="2">SVG-A11y TF <public-svg-a11y@w3.org></font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Date: </font><font size="2">03/04/2016 12:11 PM</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Subject: </font><font size="2">Re: svg accessibility tests</font><br><hr width="100%" size="2" align="left" noshade style="color:#8091A5; "><br><br><br><tt>Hey Fred.<br><br>On 03/04/2016 11:13 AM, Fred Esch wrote:<br>> Joanie,<br>> <br>> That calculation is done based on the core AAC below, emphasis is mine.<br>> <br>> 4.3 Text Alternative Computation<br>> <</tt><tt><a href="http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_te">http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_te</a></tt><tt>><br>> <br>> Text alternatives are built up, when appropriate, from all the relevant<br>> content contained within an element. This is accomplished via steps 2B<br>> and 2F, which are recursive, *using the full set of rules*to retrieve<br>> text from its own children or nodes it references.<br><br>The full set of rules also include a statement that you only do the<br>processing if "the current node is not already a part of an<br>{aria-labelledby,aria-describedby} traversal. See issue-1008.<br><br>[...]<br><br>> Reasoning is inline below. If my interpretation is wrong, please let me<br>> know. If it is unclear what should happen please mention this and we can<br>> bring it up as an agenda item.<br><br>I think your interpretation may indeed be wrong. Again, see issue-1008.<br><br>[...]<br><br>>> In the meantime, please refresh my memory regarding what happened with<br>>> the recursive labelledby/describedby. Shouldn't this test:<br>>> <br>>> // two valid idrefs, one with an aria-label, one with aria-labelledby<br>>> if given<br>>> <circle id="test" aria-labelledby="t1 t2" cx='50' cy='100' r='15'/><br>>> <text id="t1" x="40" y="90"aria-label="big">the</text><br>>> <text id="t2" x="140" y="90" aria-labelledby='t3'>end</text><br>>> <text id="t3"x="180" y="90">finish</text><br>>> then accessible name = "big finish"<br>>> <br>>> have accessible name of "big end"?<br>> <br>> *the element with id t1 would contribute **/big/** *<br><br>Agreed.<br><br>> *the element with id t2 would contribute **/finish/** because of the<br>> aria-labeledby.*<br><br>Disagreed.<br><br>Looking at<br></tt><tt><a href="https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_description">https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_description</a></tt><tt><br>2B:<br><br>This part is true:<br><br> if computing a name, and the current node has a non-empty<br> aria-labelledby attribute<br><br>However, this part is false:<br><br> and the current node is not already part of an aria-labelledby<br> traversal<br><br>The current node (t2) IS already part of an aria-labelledby traversal,<br>namely the node with id="test" with aria-labelledby="t1 t2".<br><br>Because of the above condition failing, we cannot do this bit:<br><br> process its IDREFs in the order they occur<br><br>Instead, we wind up having to use the text, namely "end".<br><br>--joanie<br><br></tt><br><br><BR>
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Received on Friday, 4 March 2016 19:03:52 UTC