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RE: [SOAP-JMS] minutes 2008-05-20

From: Phil Adams <phil_adams@us.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:10:14 -0500
To: Amelia A Lewis <alewis@tibco.com>
Cc: SOAP/JMS (list) <public-soap-jms@w3.org>
Message-ID: <OF0217AB50.9D6E0219-ON86257451.00581DB5-86257451.0058D4E5@us.ibm.com>
Well, does the SOAP/JMS spec really dictate which JMS APIs must be called 
by a conforming runtime?    It specifies, as an example,  the set of 
properties that must be set on the JMS message and the associated 
behavior, etc. but it doesn't say which APIs must be called by the 
conforming implementation to achieve that, nor should it in my opinion. 
The reason being that some implementations might not actually use the 
official JMS API to construct these messages.      The messages themselves 
are the interoperability point and not the actual APIs that were called to 
produce and consume them, right?

Phil Adams 
WebSphere Development - Web Services
IBM Austin, TX
email: phil_adams@us.ibm.com
office: (512) 838-6702  (tie-line 678-6702)
mobile: (512) 750-6599

Amelia A Lewis <alewis@tibco.com> 
Sent by: public-soap-jms-request@w3.org
05/22/2008 10:55 AM

Phil Adams/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
SOAP/JMS (list) <public-soap-jms@w3.org>, Roland Merrick 
RE: [SOAP-JMS] minutes 2008-05-20


On 2008-05-22 11:44:21 -0400 Phil Adams <phil_adams@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> Of course, my thinking here is restricted to the application server 
> environment, since that's what my focus is.   There might be other 
> "runtimes" 
> out there that want to play in the SOAP/JMS sandbox as well that 
> would 
> operate differently and might have different testing characteristics.

I suspect that this is what triggered my response.

We deliver JMS as a standalone messaging application; I don't know 
that we deliver it within a web application server environment (but I 
don't know the entire TIBCO software line, mind).

Doing the least necessary to verify conformance seems to me to be the 

We *are* defining at the API level.  That's the only level we *can* 
define at, interoperably.  Vendors may be supplying other APIs that 
make it easier, but ... fundamentally, we're defining which APIs are 
called in order to generate a SOAP message, and which are or should be 
called to consume it.

We can't test wire-level conformance, because JMS ain't got it.

We *can* define a serialization, using the same sets of APIs that we 
are effectively using to define the protocol, and verify that the 
output is conformant/consistent.

Do we need more for bootstrapping than the JNDI environment?

(could folks please stop copying the -request list address in 
Amelia A. Lewis
Senior Architect
TIBCO/Extensibility, Inc.
Received on Thursday, 22 May 2008 16:11:35 UTC

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