RE: [Bug 4638] Conformance section needed

The Schematron spec does not cover consistency. Schematron is query language agnostic, and so Schematron constraints can be written in query languages that are Turing complete (i.e. can describe the behavior of a Turing machine). So determining that two Schematron rules are inconsistent is likely to be an undecidable problem.  Even the default query binding (extended version of XPath 1.0  as defined in XSLT) allows constraints with extension functions and hence determining that two rules are inconsistent is likely to be undecidable.

From: public-sml-request@w3.org [mailto:public-sml-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Wilson, Kirk D
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 4:30 AM
To: Kumar Pandit; Smith, Virginia (HP Software); public-sml@w3.org
Subject: RE: [Bug 4638] Conformance section needed

I believe it was John who, during the F2F, mentioned a critical issue, namely, the consistency of rules in the model.  A model is invalid if it has inconsistent rules.  Consistency seems to me to be an important point to cover in the conformance criteria.  (Is it covered by ISO/IEC 19757-3?)  It seems to me that formally testing the consistency of a set of Schematron rules is a substantial theoretical challenge.  Are their known algorithms for doing that?

Kirk Wilson, Ph.D.
Research Staff Member
CA Labs
603 823-7146

________________________________
From: public-sml-request@w3.org [mailto:public-sml-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Kumar Pandit
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 1:16 AM
To: Smith, Virginia (HP Software); public-sml@w3.org
Subject: RE: [Bug 4638] Conformance section needed

Ginny, thanks for making the relevant changes. I agree that some of the changes can wait until after the second draft.


From: public-sml-request@w3.org [mailto:public-sml-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Smith, Virginia (HP Software)
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 4:04 PM
To: public-sml@w3.org
Subject: RE: [Bug 4638] Conformance section needed

I think that we do need to check the content against the rest of the spec and revise as necessary - I thought maybe after Second Draft would be a good time - but it does not seem like the time is right just yet. For the time being I mostly just reworded and reorganized the section. We could be more vague and, instead of mentioning each requirement, just refer to the normative sections (which are not clearly identified as such yet).

I agree that a bulleted list is appropriate so the conformance criteria can be identified. I will change that.

The terminology in section 2.2 doesn't exactly match. I think we should  make the change suggested by Kumar (the 2nd #2) but I would like to also change the terminology to say "instance document" and "definition document".

--
ginny



________________________________
From: Kumar Pandit [mailto:kumarp@windows.microsoft.com]
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 12:07 AM
To: Smith, Virginia (HP Software); public-sml@w3.org
Cc: Kumar Pandit
Subject: RE: [Bug 4638] Conformance section needed
Ginny's proposed text looks good and I agree with the suggestions from Kirk and Sandy.

Do we need additional items listed below? I am not proposing the actual text here.

1.    Each SML reference in each model instance document must satisfy reference validity conditions as defined in [add reference to section where we define 'at most one target' etc. conditions].

2.    Each instance document in the model MUST satisfy all applicable SML identity constraints.

3.    If SML identity constraints are defined in a schema document, they must be defined in conformance to section 4.4 Identity constraints (for example, verify that they appear inside xs:appinfo section and that the selector/field xpath matches the BNF we define, etc.)

4.    Similarly for schematron constraints.

Other suggestions:

1.    The list should be a numbered list instead of a bulleted list.

2.    Items should specifically say 'each instance document' or 'each schema document' instead of 'each document'.



From: public-sml-request@w3.org [mailto:public-sml-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Smith, Virginia (HP Software)
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:53 PM
To: public-sml@w3.org
Subject: RE: [Bug 4638] Conformance section needed

I agree with Sandy's suggestion. I'll make the change.

________________________________
From: public-sml-request@w3.org [mailto:public-sml-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Pratul Dublish
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 8:29 AM
To: Sandy Gao; public-sml@w3.org
Subject: RE: [Bug 4638] Conformance section needed
Agree with Sandy and Kirk

From: public-sml-request@w3.org [mailto:public-sml-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Sandy Gao
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 7:03 AM
To: public-sml@w3.org
Subject: RE: [Bug 4638] Conformance section needed


+1 to Kirk's comment.

Maybe it'll be even better to treat acyclic in the same way as target*. e.g.

    *      Each document in the model MUST satisfy all applicable Schematron constraints
   *      Each document in the model MUST satisfy all applicable sml:acyclic and sml:target* constraints

We don't have to repeat "no cycle" here. That rule is already specified elsewhere in the spec.

Thanks,
Sandy Gao
XML Technologies, IBM Canada
Editor, W3C XML Schema WG<http://www.w3.org/XML/Schema/>
Member, W3C SML WG<http://www.w3.org/XML/SML/>
(1-905) 413-3255 T/L 969-3255
"Wilson, Kirk D" <Kirk.Wilson@ca.com>
Sent by: public-sml-request@w3.org

2007-09-06 06:27 AM

To

<bugzilla@wiggum.w3.org>, <public-sml@w3.org>

cc



Subject

RE: [Bug 4638] Conformance section needed











Now that we have dropped sml:refType, is "reference type" (see last bullet, last phrase) a well-defined term in the spec?  I would think we need to give an explicit definition of what we intend to cover with this term or, simpler, just drop the word "type" from the phrase.

Kirk Wilson, Ph.D.
Research Staff Member
CA Labs
603 823-7146

-----Original Message-----
From: public-sml-request@w3.org [mailto:public-sml-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of bugzilla@wiggum.w3.org
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:56 AM
To: public-sml@w3.org
Subject: [Bug 4638] Conformance section needed


http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4638


virginia.smith@hp.com changed:

          What    |Removed                     |Added
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        AssignedTo|cmsmcq@w3.org               |virginia.smith@hp.com
          Keywords|editorial                   |needsReview




------- Comment #3 from virginia.smith@hp.com  2007-09-06 09:55 -------
In the SML spec, changed the "Model Validation" section to "Conformance
Criteria" as follows:

A program is a conforming SML model validator if it satisfies the following
conditions:

   *      The validator MUST perform model validation as defined in this
specification. Model validation is the process of examining each document in a
model and verifying that this document is valid with respect to the model
definition documents, i.e., each model instance document satisfies the schemas
and rules defined in the applicable model definition documents.
   *      The validator MUST support XML Schema 1.0 and XPath 1.0 but MAY also
support any future versions of these specifications.
   *      The validator MUST perform Schematron rule evaluation on the #ALL
phase, implying that every rule in every pattern is evaluated.

A set of XML documents is a conforming SML model if it satisfies the following
conditions:

   *      Each document in the model MUST be a well-formed XML document [XML
1.0]
   *      Each XML Schema document in the model's definition documents MUST
satisfy the conditions expressed in Errors in Schema Construction and Structure
(§5.1). [XML Schema Structures]
   *      Each Schematron document in the model's definition documents MUST be
a valid Schematron document [ISO/IEC 19757-3]
   *      In each instance document in the model, the [validity] property of
the root element and all of its attributes and descendants MUST NOT be
"invalid" when schema validity is assessed by a conforming schema-aware
processor with respect to the referenced XML Schema documents in the model's
definition documents. [XML Schema Structures]
   *      Each document in the model MUST satisfy all applicable sml:target*
and Schematron constraints
   *      The model MUST NOT contain a cycle whose edges are references of
type R if R is an acyclic reference type