Re: Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback

Hi Tony,

I thought it was possible to have both instance definitions and class
definitions at the same IRI?


*Lloyd McKenzie*Consultant, Information Technology Services
Gevity Consulting Inc.

 E: lmckenzie@gevityinc.com
M: +1 587-334-1110 <1-587-334-1110>
W: gevityinc.com


*GEVITY**Informatics for a healthier world *

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On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:59 AM, Anthony Mallia <amallia@edmondsci.com>
wrote:

>  Lloyd,
>
>
>
> I think the thread has mutated from the prefix discussion which seems to
> be closed to the IRI discussion which needs a lot more thought.
>
>
>
> In RDF the IRI points to the RDF individual or entity that is being
> referenced not its FHIR structural definition. However the FHIR URIs should
> give us identity uniqueness.
>
> If we were to get distributed RDF Ontology support where the IRI’s might
> be network dereferenceable we would have a conflict.
>
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lloyd McKenzie [mailto:lloyd@lmckenzie.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2015 8:46 AM
> *To:* Marc Twagirumukiza
> *Cc:* Anthony Mallia; David Booth; HL7 ITS; owner-its@lists.hl7.org; w3c
> semweb HCLS
>
> *Subject:* Re: Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback
>
>
>
> The URIs are already defined.  We use a base of ..../fhir/ for code
> systems and ..../fhir/vs/ for value sets.  And it's entirely possible to
> have both reactionSeverity and conditionSeverity and numerous other
> orthogonal severity value sets.
>
>
>
> This discussion is purely about what prefixes we define for our "standard"
> representation created by automatic transformation of XML or JSON to RDF.
> And my leaning is to define only one - "fhir" = "http://hl7.org/fhir/".
> In terms of consuming source data, we would be able to consume RDF
> regardless of what prefixes it chose to declare, but we wouldn't round-trip
> any of them.
>
>
>
> *Lloyd McKenzie *Consultant, Information Technology Services
> Gevity Consulting Inc.
>
>  E: lmckenzie@gevityinc.com
> M: +1 587-334-1110 <1-587-334-1110>
> W: gevityinc.com
>
>
> *GEVITY **Informatics for a healthier world *
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY – This communication is confidential and for the exclusive
> use of its intended recipients. If you have received this communication by
> error, please notify the sender and delete the message without copying or
> disclosing it*.*
>
> NOTE: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and positions
> expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of my employer,
> my clients nor the organizations with whom I hold governance positions
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 1:51 AM, Marc Twagirumukiza <
> marc.twagirumukiza@agfa.com> wrote:
>
> Tony,
> +1  to declare http://hl7.org/fhir/ as FHIR:
> For IRI:
> I would use  "http://hl7.org/fhir/severity/ <http://hl7.org/fhir/>"
> rather than  http://hl7.org/fhir/vs/reactionSeverity
> To disambiguate from a ValueSet to another will be done with the pattern
> model.
>
> Otherwise we may end up with multiple
> http://hl7.org/fhir/vs/reactionSeverity ,
> http://hl7.org/fhir/vs/conditionSeverity
> <http://hl7.org/fhir/vs/reactionSeverity> , etc.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> * Marc *
>  ------------------------------
>
> Click on link to read important disclaimer:
> http://www.agfahealthcare.com/maildisclaimer
>
>
>
> From:        Anthony Mallia <amallia@edmondsci.com>
> To:        Lloyd McKenzie <lloyd@lmckenzie.com>
> Cc:        Marc Twagirumukiza/AXPZC/AGFA@AGFA, David Booth <
> david@dbooth.org>, HL7 ITS <its@lists.hl7.org>, "owner-its@lists.hl7.org"
> <owner-its@lists.hl7.org>, w3c semweb HCLS <public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org>
> Date:        05/03/2015 19:14
> Subject:        RE: Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback
>  ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Lloyd,
> I agree. The use of prefix is a presentation issue and does not change the
> behavior of reasoners etc.
> If a user wants to add prefixes it can be done locally based on the IRI
> structure which is what we need to focus on.
> However we do want to use the dereferenceable URIs that FHIR designates so
> we can get at the semantic definition if needed.
>
> So a proposed position will be to declare http://hl7.org/fhir/ as FHIR:
> but the dereferenceable URI probably has
> http://hl7.org/fhir/structuredefinition/ so we should use this maybe in
> an annotation not the name IRI.
> I was just working on reactionSeverity ValueSet which would have an IRI of
> http://hl7.org/fhir/vs/reactionSeverity and its display will be
> determined by rdfs:label value derived from ValueSet.name.
>
> Tony
>
> *From:* Lloyd McKenzie [mailto:lloyd@lmckenzie.com <lloyd@lmckenzie.com>]
> * Sent:* Thursday, March 05, 2015 12:25 PM
> * To:* Anthony Mallia
> * Cc:* Marc Twagirumukiza; David Booth; HL7 ITS; owner-its@lists.hl7.org;
> w3c semweb HCLS
> * Subject:* Re: Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> I wouldn't treat structure definitions as distinct from any other.  The
> "vs" namespace is just for FHIR-defined valuesets.  There will be 100s of
> value set namespaces out in the real world once more people start
> profiling, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend giving prefixes to any of
> them.  They don't mean anything special.
>
> *Lloyd McKenzie*
> Consultant, Information Technology Services
> Gevity Consulting Inc.
>
>  E: lmckenzie@gevityinc.com
> M: +1 587-334-1110 <1-587-334-1110>
> W: gevityinc.com
>
> *GEVITY*
> * Informatics for a healthier world *
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY – This communication is confidential and for the exclusive
> use of its intended recipients. If you have received this communication by
> error, please notify the sender and delete the message without copying or
> disclosing it*.*
>
> NOTE: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and positions
> expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of my employer,
> my clients nor the organizations with whom I hold governance positions
>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:25 AM, Anthony Mallia <amallia@edmondsci.com>
> wrote:
> Marc,
> There is probably some right balance between having the prefix state the
> namespace or to have the dot notation as in FHIR.
> However there are some base FHIR URIs which might deserve prefixes:
>
> http://hl7.org/fhir/structuredefinition/ (when the FHIR website moves
> there)
> http://hl7.org/fhir/vs/ which supports the valuesets
>
> There may be more in FHIR that I have not yet discovered and Lloyd will
> know what they are.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tony
>
>
> *From:* Marc Twagirumukiza [mailto:marc.twagirumukiza@agfa.com]
> * Sent:* Thursday, March 05, 2015 3:42 AM
> * To:* Lloyd McKenzie
> * Cc:* David Booth; HL7 ITS; owner-its@lists.hl7.org; w3c semweb HCLS
> * Subject:* Re: Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback
>
> I fully support having a single "fhir" prefix. This will help at 'FHIR
> ontology' development level with making reusable predicates.
> Also at instance level it would help to include something that identifies
> order for array elements
> Kind Regards,
>
> * Marc Twagirumukiza | Agfa HealthCare*
> Senior Clinical Researcher | HE/Advanced Clinical Applications Research
> T  +32 3444 8188 | M  +32 499 713 300
>
> http://www.agfahealthcare.com
> http://blog.agfahealthcare.com
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
>
> Click on link to read important disclaimer:
> http://www.agfahealthcare.com/maildisclaimer
>
>
>
> From:        Lloyd McKenzie <lloyd@lmckenzie.com>
> To:        David Booth <david@dbooth.org>
> Cc:        w3c semweb HCLS <public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org>, HL7 ITS <
> its@lists.hl7.org>
> Date:        04/03/2015 19:33
> Subject:        Proposed RDF FHIR syntax feedback
> Sent by:        owner-its@lists.hl7.org
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> Several comments:
> 1. I'm not clear on the benefit of defining prefixes for every resource
> and type.  The alternative is a single "fhir" prefix
> 2. We need to include something in the instances that identifies order for
> array elements
> 3. Do we need to declare type everywhere?  Quite often, the type can be
> inferred from the context and the property name by consulting the
> resource/data type definition ontology.  Explicitly listing types
> everywhere adds verbosity to the instances and also adds complexity to the
> conversion process
> 4. Not sure why we have nodes underneath "div".  Can't we just have "div"
> be of type string for our purposes?
>
> Additional things to add to our example:
> - a nested structure (e.g. DiagnosticReport.image)
> - a reference to an external resource (outside the bundle) and reference
> to something within the bundle (local, full reference-version independent,
> full reference-version dependent)
> - a codeable concept with multiple codings
> - a coding with version declared
> - a coding with valueset declared
> - a coding with code but no system
> - an instance of identifier
> - an "id" attribute on an element
> - a reference to the same id attribute (likely from an extension)
> - an extension with a simple type
> - an extension with a complex type
> - an extension that repeats and has multiple values
> - an element that is an instance a choice (element name is something[x])
> - a reference to Questionnaire or one of the other resources that has
> recursion.  Could just be added to the bundle
>
> *Lloyd McKenzie*
> Consultant, Information Technology Services
> Gevity Consulting Inc.
>
>  E: lmckenzie@gevityinc.com
> M: +1 587-334-1110 <1-587-334-1110>
> W: gevityinc.com
>
> *GEVITY*
> * Informatics for a healthier world *
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY – This communication is confidential and for the exclusive
> use of its intended recipients. If you have received this communication by
> error, please notify the sender and delete the message without copying or
> disclosing it*.*
>
> NOTE: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and positions
> expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of my employer,
> my clients nor the organizations with whom I hold governance positions
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:05 PM, <david@dbooth.org> wrote:
> David Booth <david@dbooth.org> has invited you to HL7/W3C FHIR RDF &
> Validation/Translation Task Force
>
>
>
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