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RE: [BIONT-DSE] Inclusion versus exclusion criteria

From: Kashyap, Vipul <VKASHYAP1@PARTNERS.ORG>
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 08:40:41 -0400
Message-ID: <DBA3C02EAD0DC14BBB667C345EE2D124010EFAB0@PHSXMB20.partners.org>
To: "Bijan Parsia" <bparsia@cs.man.ac.uk>
Cc: "Kavitha Srinivas" <ksrinivs@gmail.com>, <wangxiao@musc.edu>, "Alan Ruttenberg" <alanruttenberg@gmail.com>, "Andersson, Bo H" <Bo.H.Andersson@astrazeneca.com>, "Landen Bain" <lbain@topsailtech.com>, "Rachel Richesson" <Rachel.Richesson@epi.usf.edu>, "public-semweb-lifesci hcls" <public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org>, <public-hcls-dse@w3.org>, "Stanley Huff" <Stan.Huff@intermountainmail.org>, "Yan Heras" <Yan.Heras@intermountainmail.org>, "Oniki, Tom (GE Healthcare, consultant)" <Tom.Oniki@ge.com>, "Joey Coyle" <joey@xcoyle.com>, "Bron W. Kisler" <bkisler@earthlink.net>, "Ida Sim" <sim@medicine.ucsf.edu>



> The data complexity of EL++ suggest strongly that a sensible
> reduction to SQL is unlikely (i.e., you'll need datalogesque rules as
> well).

[VK] The interesting question in my mind then is what is the additional
functionality achieved by these datalogesque rules that are not present in
SQL? The reason I ask is because today the major RDBMS vendors support
transitive closure operations and I was wondering if there is any other
functionality that is missing in SQL.

Also, what would be great is to get a concrete real world example which
illustrates the above. The example given by Kavitha, I believe has a SQL
translation. Getting such examples are crucial to showing the value of the web.

> Even logspace data complex logics can be tricky. The DL-Lite family
> is the paramount example and they can have an exponential blowup in
> the size of the query (since they need to intern parts of the tbox in
> the query, so each conjunct might expand, and then the permutations
> of the expansions must be added to the union of queries...er...as I
> recall :))

[VK] From a pragmatic point of view, in the context of a given application, 
this just needs to be done once. There are well defined RDBMS approaches to
create views, materialize them, develop indexing structures to achieve
scalability.

For instance, I know that a common approach to using Snomed is to precompute
the "closure" and store it in a RDBMS.

So, the real world has figured out ways of dealing with these situations and
I am yet to see examples of how using semantic web technologies, will give them
the scalability and make their life easier.

> So, basically, large queries with large, connectd TBoxes will be
> challenging, requiring clever optimization of the rewriting. This
> isn't something you'll do by hand ;)

[VK] Can I have some real world examples which illustrate this?

---Vipul


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Received on Thursday, 13 September 2007 12:41:05 UTC

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