- From: Kostiainen, Anssi <anssi.kostiainen@intel.com>
- Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 12:43:51 +0000
- To: "public-secondscreen@w3.org" <public-secondscreen@w3.org>
Hi All,
The minutes of the group's teleconference held on 2015-01-30 are online at [1]. A text-only version of the minutes is inline to help indexing.
Please send corrections to the minutes to this list.
Thanks,
-Anssi (WG chair)
[1] http://www.w3.org/2015/01/30-webscreens-minutes.html
__________________________________________________________
Second Screen Presentation Working Group - Teleconference 30 Jan 2015
[2]Agenda
[2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-secondscreen/2015Jan/0032.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2015/01/30-webscreens-irc
Attendees
Present
Anssi Kostiainen, Anton Vayvod, Aizu Hiroyuki (IRC), Bob
Lund, Brad Lassey, Dominik Röttsches, Francois Daoust,
Louay Bassbouss, Mark Foltz, Mark Watson
Regrets
Chair
Anssi Kostiainen
Scribe
Francois Daoust
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Welcome
2. [6]Round table introductions
3. [7]Introduction to W3C
4. [8]General logistics
5. [9]Charter
6. [10]Announcements
7. [11]Spec status and next steps
* [12]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
Welcome
Anssi: Welcome everyone, first telco of the Second Screen
Presentation WG!
Anssi: This call is intended to be a soft introduction to get
to know each other, see what happened to the spec and next
steps
... This WG was chartered in October 2014. We initially started
as a CG in late 2013 and migrated the specification from the CG
into this WG.
... That took about a year.
Anssi: This is a focused WG: only one spec at this time on our
plate, the Presentation API.
... [Going through the [13]call agenda]
[13] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-secondscreen/2015Jan/0032.html
Round table introductions
Anssi: I work for Intel in Finland. I'm your Chair, at your
service. I'm editor of 7 specifications in W3C and participate
in about 11 WG.
... Also proud father of two kids.
... My main interest for the group is to remove obstacles from
the way so that the WG can make progress.
... Typically, Francois and I will take on the burden from the
process whenever possible.
... I want to ensure we avoid scope creep.
... There is a tendancy to add new features and never publish.
... We're in a good position with a tight charter.
... Also, we should make sure that we iterate the spec with
implementation feedback early on in the process.
... The goal is not to have to revisite issues later on. I'm
very happy to see many implementers in this group.
... I encourage you to jump in the discussion.
... Leaving the floor to hear about you.
Dominik: I'm the editor of the specification. Together with
Anssi, we introduced the topic and started the CG.
... I also work in Intel, software engineer, Chromium
committer.
... My interest is to bring the feature to browsers around
there.
... We're interested in exposing Miracast here, but more
generally in the feature itself.
... It's always great to have specific points in the spec.
Anton: I work for Google in the London office. Hello from Great
Britain. Work for Chrome on Android. Implemented support for
Chromecast on Android.
... Very interested in the API as it brings the feature to Web
browsers.
... My main concern is how to get many developers to use the
API, need to remain simple.
Brad: I work for Mozilla, from Boston. I started the Fennec
project. Involved in introducing media flinging for Firefox for
Android and for desktop in particular
Bob: I work for CableLabs. We are a non profit R&D organization
that represent cable operators.
... We've been using discovery protocols, e.g. DIAL and
Chromecast.
... Different approaches. My main interest is to see an API
that could accomodate different discovery protocols
Louay: I'm from Fraunhofer FOKUS, Germany. Main topic is
everything around multi-screens. Also involved in Web and TV IG
in W3C, also HbbTV.
... My interest is to bring all these standards to our
customers
MarkW: I work for Netflix, video on demand service on the
Internet. We have multiscreen stuff based on DIAL.
MarkF: I work for Google on Chrome in the Seattle area. My team
built the first generation of multiscreen support in Chrome,
with Chromecast and DIAL.
MarkF: Main goal is to enable support for multi-screens.
... My main concern is to ensure that we can take advantage of
existing devices out there, and also I think there are
interesting security aspects.
Francois: I work for W3C, have been involved in the Web and TV
IG lately. My main role is to ensure that the WG follows the
W3C Process and to work with Anssi to ensure the process does
not block the group in any way.
Introduction to W3C
tidoust: there may be couple of you not familiar with W3C
... three main documents that govern the rules of a working
group:
tidoust: 1) [14]W3C Process Document
... describes how WGs work, recommendation track, what it means
to publish a doc
... what are the maturity levels
[14] http://www.w3.org/2014/Process-20140801/
tidoust: 2) [15]W3C Patent Policy
... commitments made when joined the group, Royalty-Free policy
... any questions, please contact tidoust
... describes call for exclusions
[15] http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20040205/
tidoust: 3) [16]Second Screen Presentation Working Group
Charter
... The working group has to take decisions based on consensus
... no-one should be objecting to a decision
... if someone is objecting, decision cannot be taken
... if no consensus is reached, there's an escalation process
... you can go up to the W3C Director
... that's very important part of the Process
... Rec Track defines maturity levels of a spec
... currently, the spec is Editor's Draft, thus no formal
standing
... next publication will be First Public Working Draft
... which triggers the first exclusion period
... Working Drafts are then published
... ED pub can be automated
... Candidate Rec aka CR, when it is "feature complete", call
for implementations
... to ensure the spec has been reviewed by external world
there's a wider review
... Proposed Rec aka PR when we have two implementations
... W3C Recommendation aka REC, web standards
... that's about it
... Process doc defines review periods, transitions from stage
to another
... about rules and responsibilities
... roles: chair, staff contact
... chair to ensure consensus is found, staff contact to help
... editor is authoring the specification
... scribe is responsible for writing down minutes
[16] http://www.w3.org/2014/secondscreen/charter.html
General logistics
Anssi: This is: "How do we do our day-to-day activity"
Anssi: From the [17]home page of the group, you can find links
to other material, Wiki, charter, list of participants, etc.
... The [18]WG Wiki is open for everyone to contribute to.
[17] http://www.w3.org/2014/secondscreen/
[18] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Second_Screen
<anssik>
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-secondscreen/
-> Mailing lists
Anssi: Let's make use of this resource!
... The [19]WG mailing-list is the main communications mean of
the group.
... I should note that there is a tendancy to move technical
discussions to GitHub where the spec is.
... That is fine. There is no requirement that would prevent us
from doing so.
... I'm open to suggestions as we advance the specification.
[19] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-secondscreen/
-> [20]Presentation API spec on GitHub
[20] https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api
Anssi: Those are the main pointers we have.
... To contribute, let's say you have a proposal, a concern,
see a typo, or something else, do not hesitate to send an email
to start with.
... Then, if you're more adventurous, you can fork the spec and
send a pull request, so that Dominik can review your
contributions..
... We're open to all sorts of feedback. The process is not
limiting us in this regard.
Anssi: If you're interesting in making contributions to the
spec, please look at the [21]instructions in the Wiki.
... The instructions have been tested in Linux and MacOS. On
Windows, you may struggle a bit
[21] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Second_Screen/Work_Mode#Direct_Spec_Contributions
Anssi: Francois will update the instructions with Windows
considerations.
... We're using GitHub issue tracker. Anyone can create and
discuss issues:
* [22]Open issues
https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues
* [23]Work Mode / Issues
[23] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Second_Screen/Work_Mode#Issues
Anssi: I came up with a series of guidelines, hope they make
sense.
... I would like to ensure that every voice is heard. The best
way for your idea not to go unnoticed is to open an issue on
GitHub.
... If you still prefer to stick to the mailing-list, no
problem, Dominik and myself will monitor the list and create
needed issues on GitHub.
... The role of the editor is not to resolve all issues. That's
rather the role of the WG. You can in particular assign issues
to yourself.
... We have had some discussions off the list with Francois
about the mailing-list and GitHub. I'd like to hear your views.
Would you like to setup some automated system that sends emails
to the mailing-list whenever something happened on GitHub?
... See related mail on the mailing-list
... Any concern or question or view about moving more on the
work to GitHub and reflecting the work on the mailing-list
automatically?
MarkF: My question is on prototype implementations. Do you want
these to be reflected on the W3C repository? Or is it ok to use
our personal repos?
Anssi: If you wish, you may fork your repo to the "webscreens"
organization which was created for that purpose:
[24]https://github.com/webscreens/
[24] https://github.com/webscreens/
Anssi: Also note the implementation status that references
existing implementations:
[25]https://www.w3.org/wiki/Second_Screen/Implementation_Status
[25] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Second_Screen/Implementation_Status
Anssi: Things under the W3C organization are for WG
specifications and deliverables
Francois: Note code is not a deliverable of the WG, so does not
have to be submitted to W3C. It's of course a good thing to
have prototypes and to reference them.
Anssi: right. The Test suite is a deliverable of the WG and
will typically appear under the W3C organization.
Charter
-> [26]Second Screen Presentation WG Charter
[26] http://www.w3.org/2014/secondscreen/charter.html
Anssi: Briefly, I want to ensure that we understand what the
charter is and contains.
Anssi: The most important section is probably the [27]Scope
section. It defines... the scope!
... We can partition our work across multiple specs if it's
useful and makes sense.
... There are also success criteria, 2 implementations at a
minimum.
... If we don't get 2 implementations for a feature, we won't
put it in the spec.
... Maybe the third section that you might want to review is
the Out of Scope section.
[27] http://www.w3.org/2014/secondscreen/charter.html#scope
Anssi: If you strongly feel that some of this work should have
more discussion among vendors, the sister [28]Web Screens
Community Group is the right place for these discussions.
... These features could come to the WG later on, when and if
we re-charter.
... Note we can split the Presentation API into multiple
specifications if you feel that's useful
[28] http://www.w3.org/community/webscreens/
Francois: Note the timeline and milestones that appear in the
charter should not be dismissed. As you can see, the timeline
in the charter already takes us to a REC in mid-2016. If the
group misses milestones, it will miss that final milestone as
well! The chair and I will keep an eye on the timeline, but
note progress is on everyone's shoulders.
MarkF: You mentioned some features could be added as
extensions. What is the process to do so?
Anssi: I think these extensions would be considered in their
own spec. The right way to do it would be to experiment with
the features in the CG, and then these extensions can be
brought to the WG, provided the WG re-charters if these
features are out of scope.
Francois: Agree. If the question is also about possible
extensions points that the Presentation API could have and that
would allow implementers to experiment extensions without
breaking the API, that's fully in scope of the WG.
Announcements
Anssi: We will have a F2F at TPAC. Next TPAC is 26-30 October
2015 in Yokohama, Japan. We have the option to meet before
that.
... Given that TPAC is a bit far away, the plan would be to
hold a F2F in spring, probably towards end of May. Possible
dates:
* 19-20 May (not optimal)
* 26-27 May
* 27-28 May
Anssi: I have started to discuss that with some of you.
... 19-20 May is not optimal because of a conflict with
WWW2015. We're targeting a two-day meeting.
Anssi: Please have a look at these possibilities. We are open
to offers to host. thanks for those who already offered to
host!
... I will send an email to the mailing-list afterwards with
the different possibilities.
... Please get in touch with Francois and myself if you can
host.
... See [29]Hosting W3C Face to Face Meetings in the guidebook
[29] http://www.w3.org/Guide/hosting.htm
Spec status and next steps
Anssi: This is where we start to work!
Anssi: Dominik will give us an update since the CG
Dominik: See [30]the notes I prepared in Wiki page.
... We added a first draft of the algorithms section, thanks to
MarkF!
... We iterated a bit on some sections.
... Then, with Anssi, we thought we would merge algorithms and
the IDL definitions.
... The Presentation API is in a much better shape than it was.
... Having said that, we have a few open issues.
... We have to look at how we're going to tear down sessions.
Signal? How to avoid orphaned sessions? Etc.
... I invite anyone, especially those implementing the spec, to
contribute here.
... The message exchange mechanism needs to be further
specified. We have a postMessage right now. There are related
discussion within bugzilla at Mozilla.
... We've had exchanges with them.
... Do we want to add additional types such as ArrayBuffers for
instance?
... Then, we also need to look at the Presentation API from the
presenting page, to see whether things are clear and consistent
there.
... These issues that I have highlighted are marked as P1
(Priority 1)
... Of course, if you have suggestions for other issues, you're
welcome as well!
... As soon as we find consensus on a proposal, I'm happy to
merge it to the spec.
[30] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Second_Screen/Meetingnotes/Telco_2015_01_30
Anssi: Great overview, thanks! If you can have a look at [31]P1
issues on GitHub, we can continue to work on them offline.
[31] https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3AP1
Anssi: Next, I'd like to talk about publication as FPWD.
Publication as a FPWD does not imply that the spec is feature
complete.
Anssi: What will happen next is that I will send a call for
consensus on the mailing-list (CfC) to check with you whether
there are concerns with that publication.
... For [32]open issues for the FPWD, we don't need to flesh
out the solution, we can just say that the section is under
discussion.
... If someone can take an action to review the spec, that
would be great as well.
... Any volunteer?
... If you don't want to commit on the call, just keep the spec
as an open tab so that you can have a look at it when you come
back to the office on Monday.
... Any other business that you would like to raise or discuss?
... Thank you everyone for attending. This was more an
introduction call. In the coming calls, we would keep more
technical focus.
[32] https://github.com/w3c/presentation-api/milestones/FPWD
MarkF: Are there other WG in W3C that are doing related things
and that we should follow?
Anssi: If you look at the charter, there is a [33]Dependencies
and Liaisons section that enumerates some of these groups.
... For instance, the Device API WG has been experiencing with
the Network Service Discovery API. WebRTC, Web and TV IG, Web
Security WG, etc.
[33] http://www.w3.org/2014/secondscreen/charter.html#liaisons
MarkF: The one that I might propose to add is the group working
on SharedWorkers.
... I've used their spec as a guideline.
Anssi: I guess you mean ServiceWorkers. In scope of the Webapps
WG. That's an interesting specification, indeed.
Anssi: Thanks a lot for attending the call!
[call adjourned]
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [34]scribe.perl version
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$Date: 2015-02-02 08:29:59 $
[34] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[35] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Received on Monday, 2 February 2015 12:44:23 UTC