- From: Anthony Moretti <anthony.moretti@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:22:37 -0700
- To: Martin Hepp <mfhepp@gmail.com>
- Cc: Peter Patel-Schneider <pfpschneider@gmail.com>, Simon Cox <Simon.Cox@csiro.au>, public-schemaorg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CACusdfTbbazQUAPSCWj-ta=DHOimwuQFmFD1zR9jbXb9CNGexA@mail.gmail.com>
The name of this thread is "Historical events" and people are asking
questions about real problems they are facing, am I or others off topic
somehow?
Anthony
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 12:15 PM Martin Hepp <mfhepp@gmail.com> wrote:
> Please, please, please - let us try to go back to discussing tangible
> improvements of the schema.org vocabulary in the context of being the
> center of a giant, heteorgeneous data ecosystem with real users and real
> applications on this mailing list.
>
> I am sure there are lots of subscribers to this list who are interested in
> using schema.org for tangible business purposes in their day jobs. They
> are likely not just not interested in very fundamental conceptual modeling
> discussions, they likely feel out of place and might be lost for this
> community.
>
> And there are other forums where you will find way more resonance, like
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ontolog-forum
>
> There are so many wonderful ways of making schema.org a better place for
> everyone, e.g. by crafting examples for the many elements that still lack
> them, or by translating examples into other missing syntaxes, or by
> spotting small, fixable inconsistencies in terms of wording or even formal
> semantics.
>
> A pull request on GitHub is worth a thousand words...
>
> Maybe you want to start "A Hitchiker's Guide to Schema.org", same as the
> excellent
>
> http://docs.python-guide.org/en/latest/
>
> initiated by the great Kenneth Reitz. It just takes setting up a bit of
> infrastructure, like so
>
> https://github.com/kennethreitz/python-guide
>
> and then dedicated contributors. The Python variant has 341 authors as of
> today, who have kept alive one of the greatest pieces of support for Python
> developers over almost a decade.
>
> If you are interested, watch
>
> https://www.kennethreitz.org/talks#/documentation-at-scale/
>
> and let us apply this to schema.org.
>
> It will help thousands of developers, and will matter for them more than
> fine-tuning the definition of a single element from a subjective point of
> view.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Martin
>
>
> > On 20 Jun 2018, at 20:38, Anthony Moretti <anthony.moretti@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I tend to agree with Mike and Simon, from a modeling point of view it's
> all the same thing so maybe it's just the definition that needs to be
> clarified and more subtypes added. The current definition and current
> subtypes give the impression that it has a somewhat narrow meaning.
> >
> > The link Mike provided, and this authoritative article describe the very
> broad meaning "event" can have:
> >
> > https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/events/
> >
> > So perhaps the Schema definition could start with the dictionary
> definition then explicitly mention its broad applicability:
> >
> > https://schema.org/Event
> > A thing that happens, especially one of importance.
> > In addition to typical events, instances can be periods of time,
> activities, actions, and processes, etc.
> >
> > A definition like the above, combined with new subtypes suggested by
> Allison and others, might make people more comfortable using it in more
> ways than they might currently.
> >
> > Anthony
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 4:17 AM Peter F. Patel-Schneider <
> pfpschneider@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So then World War 2 is not an event, and June (the repeating period) is.
> >
> >
> > peter
> >
> >
> >
> > On 06/19/2018 06:36 PM, Simon.Cox@csiro.au wrote:
> > > That is signified by the fact that '19 June 2018' doesn't have a name,
> only an index.
> > >
> > > An 'event' that happened on that day would probably have a name
> relating to the activity.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Peter F. Patel-Schneider [mailto:pfpschneider@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 20 June, 2018 11:17
> > > To: public-schemaorg@w3.org
> > > Subject: Re: Historical events
> > >
> > > I think that ages are qualitatively different from events. Consider a
> very short age - 19 June 2018. As far as I am concerned that is not an
> event.
> > >
> > >
> > > peter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 06/19/2018 05:06 PM, Anthony Moretti wrote:
> > >> Look, I'm no temporal expert or anything, but maybe the problem is in
> > >> English it could be a continuum from "event" to "period" as the
> > >> interval of time being named gets longer, with no clear boundary.
> > >>
> > >> Mike's birthday party - an event
> > >> The Middle Ages - a period
> > >>
> > >> Because from a data modeling point of view they're the same (at least
> > >> as far as my modeling knowledge goes).
> > >>
> > >> So an unpopular solution I'm guessing would be to rename the type to
> > >> *EventOrPeriod*.
> > >>
> > >> So your previous example:
> > >>
> > >> The Black Death
> > >> superEventOrPeriod: The Middle Ages
> > >>
> > >> People's ideas?
> > >>
> > >> Anthony
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 4:10 PM Richard Wallis
> > >> <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com
> > >> <mailto:richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Anthony,
> > >>
> > >> I’m not following your logic here. I don’t see a Period (of time
> from a
> > >> start time/date to an end date/time) as an event.
> > >>
> > >> ~Richard.
> > >>
> > >> Richard Wallis
> > >> Founder, Data Liberate
> > >> http://dataliberate.com
> > >> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
> > >> Twitter: @rjw
> > >>
> > >> On 20 June 2018 at 00:05, Anthony Moretti <
> anthony.moretti@gmail.com
> > >> <mailto:anthony.moretti@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> That definitely works, but only if some definition of Period
> was
> > >> agreed on.
> > >>
> > >> The property periodEventOccurred would be a subproperty of
> > >> superEvent in any case:
> > >>
> > >> superEvent
> > >>
> > >> periodEventOccurred
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> So you could describe the same information using the existing
> term
> > >> right?
> > >>
> > >> The Black Death
> > >>
> > >> superEvent: The Middle Ages
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Anthony
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 3:50 PM Richard Wallis
> > >> <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com
> > >> <mailto:richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Using a Period Type I would suggest a cleaner alternative
> way of
> > >> saying an event occurred during a period would be like
> this:
> > >>
> > >> {
> > >> "@context": "http://schema.org",
> > >> "@type": "Event",
> > >> "name": "The Black Death",
> > >> "Description": "A pandemic that spread throughout Europe",
> > >> "periodEventOccured": {
> > >> "@type": "Period",
> > >> "name": "The Middle Ages",
> > >> "approximateStartDate": "400AD",
> > >> "approximateEndDate":"1500AD"
> > >> }
> > >> }
> > >>
> > >> On 19 June 2018 at 23:41, Anthony Moretti
> > >> <anthony.moretti@gmail.com <mailto:
> anthony.moretti@gmail.com>>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I was referencing the development version of Schema, I
> > >> should probably reference production, sorry Roger:
> > >>
> > >> * https://schema.org/subEvent
> > >> * https://schema.org/superEvent
> > >>
> > >> To say some event happened during the Iron Age for
> example:
> > >>
> > >> Invention of iron plow
> > >> superEvent: Iron Age
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Anthony
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 3:05 PM Muri, Allison
> > >> <allison.muri@usask.ca <mailto:allison.muri@usask.ca>>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The google Cloud host is really slow and I think
> the 404
> > >> is a result of something loading too slowly. I
> could
> > >> probably publish this more reliably on my own
> website! I
> > >> generally just wait a bit and reload the page.
> Sorry
> > >> about that.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >> On Jun 19, 2018, at 3:58 PM, Roger Rohrbach
> > >> <roger@ecstatic.com <mailto:roger@ecstatic.com>>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I get 404 Not Found for both of those pages.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Jun 19, 2018, at 11:50 AM, Anthony Moretti
> > >>>> <anthony.moretti@gmail.com
> > >>>> <mailto:anthony.moretti@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Isn't it already modeled by these properties?:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> * https://webschemas.org/subEvent
> > >>>> * https://webschemas.org/superEvent
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Events can exist in part-whole hierarchies,
> aren't
> > >>>> named periods just events high in these
> hierarchies?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Anthony
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 20 June 2018 19:23:17 UTC