Re: Proposal – extension for Athletics

>
> Without wanting to be contrary, even for something like the Fields Medal
> 1998 or Nobel Prize for Literature 2001 I think Thad's "prize" definition
> is more applicable than his "award, badge, achievement" definition.  At
> least in the sense you don't get a Nobel Prize for, say, finishing writing
> something, but for being the best writer of things among an implicit but
> very real field of competitors (all writers of things, for the Fields all
> practitioners of mathematics).  So I do think that it *is* actually more
> like a prize for athletics than an award for passing an exam.  On the other
> hand, I do concede that a Nobel Prize isn't awarded for an event per se -
> almost more like a prize awarded for a *season *(analogous in sport to
> something like the Heisman Trophy, although there the competitors -
> nominees for the award - are explicit).


This feels like trying to shoehorn something into an overly narrow
definition. Things like the Nobel Prize are for a body of work, which
generally does not have clean cut start/end dates.

And what do you do with things like the Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award?
To say Michael Jackson was the "best musician" is an odd interpretation of
that award.

- Vicki


On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 6:32 PM, Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks all for your input.  I especially like your classifications of
> awards and prizes Thad, and the narrower definition of prize you provide -
> though regarding that definition, only to a point:
> > Prize - award given to a winner of a competitive event
>
> I'm more aligned with Phil here:
> > So how about changing the definition to explicitly say what Aaron
> asserted (and allow for >1 prize):
> > "A prize awarded for a competition"
>
> Though mostly for the "and allow for >1 prize" part, so the Thad
> definition might be modified to say:
> "Prize - award given to a winner or winners of a competitive event"
>
> Examples of prizes awarded to more than one winner of a competition
> abound, of course - think gold, silver, bronze for an Olympic Games
> competition.  Which is why in our model we have the following properties
> (all of data type "integer"):
> position - The position to which this prize is awarded.
> maxPosition - The highest position (lowest number) to which this prize is
> awarded.
> minPosition - The lowest position (highest number) to which this prize is
> awarded.
>
> maxPosition and minPosition are useful because there are often events -
> er, competitions - for which the same prize is awarded to a range of
> competitors that finish.  Most critically here for video game competitions
> (and many other types of competitions) is that players in the top X advance
> to the next round, where the prizeAwarded is a Qualification.
>
> Tangentially (and without going too far down a rabbit hole) I'll note that
> many "awards for an achievement" are often IMO de facto "prizes for a
> competition" despite how they're labelled - and especially when an award is
> time-bound.  The 2011 Academy Award for Best Picture is really an prize
> awarded for a competition - the competitors being those pictures nominated
> for Best Picture for that year.  On that note I'll note with thanks too the
> feedback provided on whether on not a prize should be restricted to
> something awarded for an *event*, which narrowing the definition of a
> prize to be an award for a *competition* solves, I think.
>
> > A Nobel Prize may not fall within this definition, but maybe it is more
> like an award for passing an exam than a prize for athletics or solving
> crossword puzzles.
>
> Without wanting to be contrary, even for something like the Fields Medal
> 1998 or Nobel Prize for Literature 2001 I think Thad's "prize" definition
> is more applicable than his "award, badge, achievement" definition.  At
> least in the sense you don't get a Nobel Prize for, say, finishing writing
> something, but for being the best writer of things among an implicit but
> very real field of competitors (all writers of things, for the Fields all
> practitioners of mathematics).  So I do think that it *is* actually more
> like a prize for athletics than an award for passing an exam.  On the other
> hand, I do concede that a Nobel Prize isn't awarded for an event per se -
> almost more like a prize awarded for a *season *(analogous in sport to
> something like the Heisman Trophy, although there the competitors -
> nominees for the award - are explicit).
>
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 7:19 AM, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Phil,
>>
>> Yeap, we're saying the same things.
>> I was pointing out the subtle differences also.
>>
>> 1. Completing something
>> 2. Discovering something
>>
>> 3. Receiving something for accomplishing # 1
>> 4. Receiving something for accomplishing # 2
>>
>> (In English we have multiple words to choose for all 4 of those concepts)
>>
>> Where this proposal is for # 3.  I get that. I understand that.
>>
>> But there are Type needs for # 1, # 2, and # 4  where we are missing
>> subtypes that we currently don't have.
>>
>> # 3  Prize - award given to a winner of a competitive event
>> # 4  Award, Badge, Achievement - an award for finishing or completing a
>> Goal
>>
>> # 2 Discovery
>> # 1 Finished
>>
>> I don't want to mix the 4 concepts in Schema.org.  Another vocabulary
>> besides Schema.org is welcome to mix those and confuse publishers and
>> machines.
>>
>> (I also prefer my definition of a Prize, since it mentions its given to a
>> winner, and less confusing when translated to other languages.  Whereas
>> Aaron's definition gives the feeling that the prize is given to the
>> competition itself and not the winner)
>>
>> Anyways, I think the above now summarizes my true feelings.
>> -Thad
>> +ThadGuidry <https://www.google.com/+ThadGuidry>
>>
>
>