W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-schemaorg@w3.org > June 2016

Re: publisher field for Blogposts and websites

From: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 10:15:25 +0100
Message-ID: <CAD47Kz7Ey8p4m0io5JkAJSF7p0Zk8yj+OOmwoLS6DMk=Rd9KhQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Eric Franzon <eric.franzon@gmail.com>
Cc: Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com>, Elias Kaerle <elias.kaerle@sti2.at>, Bäck, Gerald <gerald@baeck.at>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>
After some digging I discover that this sensible proposal was accepted and
actioned previously in version 2.1.

Somehow the change got reversed in a following release.

I have raised an issue to get this fix reinstated:
https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1198

~Richard.

Richard Wallis
Founder, Data Liberate
http://dataliberate.com
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
Twitter: @rjw

On 7 June 2016 at 23:51, Eric Franzon <eric.franzon@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1. In addition to small blogs, this relationship exists in large
> organizations as well:
>
>
> https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=who+is+the+publisher+of+the+New+York+Times%3F
>
> Cheers,
> --Eric
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Broadening out the question of the possibility of a publisher being a
>> Person or an Organization, to any CreativeWork, that does in this age of
>> self-publishing have something [i]n its favour."
>>
>> +1 to this.  The requirements of specific data consumers entirely aside,
>> one more than one occasion having Organization as the sole expected type
>> has either struck me as limiting, or *has *been limiting.  To cite the
>> most obvious use case, the publisher of a single-author blog is almost
>> always the Person who is that single author, and it's limiting not to be
>> able to declare that without either reverting to a text string or using an
>> unexpected type.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 6:43 AM, Richard Wallis <
>> richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From a Schema.org vocabulary point of view no properties are deemed to
>>> be required.
>>>
>>> In the case of the Google SDTT complaining about missing fields it is
>>> advising you on *their* requirements for displaying information about
>>> organisations (e.g.. asking for a logo) etc. Questions regarding the needs
>>> should be addressed to their developer mailing lists.
>>>
>>> This list is inly for discussions regarding the vocabulary itself.
>>>
>>> In the particular circumstance you describe, I would probably not have
>>> applied a publisher to individual BlogPostings for which an author would
>>> suffice.  However I would have associated each post as being ‘partOf’ a
>>> Blog which optionally would have a ‘publisher’ reference.
>>>
>>> Broadening out the question of the possibility of a publisher being a
>>> Person or an Organization, to any CreativeWork, that does in this age of
>>> self-publishing have something n its favour.
>>>
>>> ~Richard.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Wallis
>>> Founder, Data Liberate
>>> http://dataliberate.com
>>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
>>> Twitter: @rjw
>>>
>>> On 7 June 2016 at 11:44, Elias Kaerle <elias.kaerle@sti2.at> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Gerald,
>>>>
>>>> I agree. Another solution could be to simply accept schema:Person and
>>>> schema:Organization as publisher.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe one of the people maintaining schema.org can comment on that
>>>> issue!?
>>>>
>>>> Best, Elias
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 07.06.2016 10:59, Bäck, Gerald wrote:
>>>> > Hi Elias,
>>>> >
>>>> > the interesting thing is, if you put a logo field into the person
>>>> entity,
>>>> > google validator claims that a logo field is not valid within the
>>>> person
>>>> > entity:) The conclusion is that persons cannot be publishers, which is
>>>> > simply wrong.
>>>> >
>>>> > My proposal is to get rid of the publisher entity as a requirement,
>>>> because
>>>> > blogposts and websites still need an author which should be enough for
>>>> > private run blogs.
>>>> >
>>>> > best wishes, Gerald
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ----
>>>> > DI Gerald Bäck | fb <https://facebook.com/geraldbaeck> | blog
>>>> > <http://www.baeck.at/> | devblog <http://dev.baeck.at> | fitblog
>>>> > <http://fitness.baeck.at> | +43 664 5107761 <+436645107761>
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Elias Kaerle <elias.kaerle@sti2.at>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Hi Gerald,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> this is indeed a strange behaviour. I would blame it on the way
>>>> Google's
>>>> >> structured data testing tool works: it does, as far as i know, not
>>>> >> necessarily validate/verify annotations strictly the way schema.org
>>>> >> defines them, but more in a way they need the annotations for feeding
>>>> >> their Rich Snippets and Rich Cards.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So I would assume Google doesn't care about having a schema:Person
>>>> as a
>>>> >> publisher, but requires a logo (or some kind of picture) to process a
>>>> >> beautiful Rich Snippet/Rich Card out of it.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Best, Elias
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 07.06.2016 08:36, Bäck, Gerald wrote:
>>>> >>> Hi,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I am currently doing my first steps with JSON-LD and try it on my
>>>> private
>>>> >>> blog. As far as I understand Blogposts do require a publisher field,
>>>> >> which
>>>> >>> can only be an organisation. But I think it should be possible for
>>>> >> persons
>>>> >>> to be publishers too, but I also would like to question, that
>>>> blogposts
>>>> >> or
>>>> >>> even Websites do need a publisher field at all.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I tested my blog with Google's Structured Data Testing Tool.
>>>> >> Interestingly
>>>> >>> enough the tool did not complain about the publisher being a
>>>> Person, but
>>>> >>> that the publisher entitiy had no logo, which on the other hand is
>>>> not
>>>> >>> allowed as a field for a person.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> https://search.google.com/structured-data/testing-tool#url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.baeck.at%2Fblog%2F2016%2F05%2F30%2FWahlmanipulationen%2F
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I also tested the root of my blog, which is defined as website,
>>>> also with
>>>> >>> myself as a publisher person. This time the tool was fine with it.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> https://search.google.com/structured-data/testing-tool#url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.baeck.at%2F
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> thx, Gerald
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ----
>>>> >>> DI Gerald Bäck | fb <https://facebook.com/geraldbaeck> | blog
>>>> >>> <http://www.baeck.at/> | devblog <http://dev.baeck.at> | fitblog
>>>> >>> <http://fitness.baeck.at> | +43 664 5107761 <+436645107761>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Elias Kärle, MSc
>>>> >> Semantic Technology Institute
>>>> >> University of Innsbruck
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ICT - Technologie Park Innsbruck
>>>> >> 2nd Floor, Room 3S02
>>>> >> Technikerstrasse, 21a
>>>> >> 6020 Innsbruck
>>>> >> Austria
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Tel.: (+43) 512 507 53738
>>>> >> Skype: elias.kaerle
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Elias Kärle, MSc
>>>> Semantic Technology Institute
>>>> University of Innsbruck
>>>>
>>>> ICT - Technologie Park Innsbruck
>>>> 2nd Floor, Room 3S02
>>>> Technikerstrasse, 21a
>>>> 6020 Innsbruck
>>>> Austria
>>>>
>>>> Tel.: (+43) 512 507 53738
>>>> Skype: elias.kaerle
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Eric Axel Franzon*
>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericfranzon
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/EricAxel
> G+: http://http://gplus.to/ericfranzon
> Online Business Card: http://ericaxel.magntize.com
>
Received on Wednesday, 8 June 2016 09:15:54 UTC

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