Re: Work-instance and isDerivativeOf

Is there a target date for the proposal?

Thanks,
Shlomo

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 22, 2013, at 12:45, "Tom Adamich" <vls@tusco.net> wrote:

> I agree with Niklas that alignment with not only bibliographic/library
> contexts but with Schema.org and semantic architecture-based concepts should
> be an essential part of our efforts here.  Isn't the goal of all of this to
> enable the library community to have a presence in the linked data web
> environment?  In that case, let's take a lesson from the enterprise world
> where granularity of terminology may be important, but not at the expense of
> timing and product launch.  Thus, our due diligence here will be beneficial
> in the end but should not hinder progress.
> 
> ...Will enjoy when all of this is compiled in an ontology.
> 
> Tom
> 
> Tom Adamich, MLS
> President
> Visiting Librarian Service
> P.O. Box 932 
> New Philadelphia, OH 44663
> 330-364-4410
> vls@tusco.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Niklas Lindström [mailto:lindstream@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:28 PM
> To: kcoyle@kcoyle.net
> Cc: public-schemabibex@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Work-instance and isDerivativeOf
> 
> Hi Karen,
> 
> Indeed, those are important points (both the difference in primary meanings
> and that no word's going to be perfect). Also in Swedish (my native tongue),
> "realiserar" has the primary meaning of "making real".
> I furthermore agree that derivative doesn't mean the same as instance.
> 
> I think the most important part is to strive for a term which is common in
> as many bibliographic/library contexts as possible, and likely to endure.
> Given the desired(?) movement from WEMI categorization towards the simpler
> work-instance notion of BibFrame (whose basic components certainly seem more
> fit for schema.org), how likely does it seem that this notion of "instance"
> will prevail (at least longer than "manifestation")? I am fairly new to this
> context (professionally), so I cannot judge the stability of these terms and
> concepts.
> 
> I can imagine that "instanceOf" is general enough to work. (The schema:model
> property does seem to be quite related, albeit belonging specifically to the
> http://schema.org/Product class (which reasonably intersects with the
> Instance notion, but is a much more specific class, not the least
> culturally).)
> 
> Should the property work on multiple levels - i.e. can you have instances of
> instances? That might make it easier to maintain a "work/expression"
> difference, if that is desired; and to relate "manifestations" to "items".
> Also, it should reasonably not be applicable on the same level, right? That
> is, where relations like derivation, adaptation or translation (and
> commonEndeavor) applies.
> 
> An alternative I kind of like is "embodies", as in "to give a tangible,
> bodily, or concrete form" (see e.g. [1], [2]).
> 
> But among the presented alternatives, I suppose that "instanceOf" has the
> least variations in this context, at least connotationally.
> 
> Cheers,
> Niklas
> 
> [1]: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/embody
> [2]: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/embody
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net> wrote:
>> It occurred to me after the call that in some languages the concept of 
>> "realization of" == frbr:Manifestation. It means to bring something 
>> into existence, thus, make it "manifest." Because the verb to realize"  
>> has a different primary meaning in English (similar to "come to an 
>> understanding
>> of") it rarely gets used this way, but I think the meaning is what we 
>> are aiming at.
>> 
>> Larousee online has:
>> 
>> - Faire passer à l'état de réalité concrète ce qui n'était que virtualité
> :
>> Des désirs difficiles à réaliser.
>> 
>> - Concrétiser quelque chose : Cette maison réalise son rêve.
>> 
>> 
>> My Italian dictionary has:
>> 
>> - realizzare: portare a compimento; concretizzare
>> 
>> Thus the concepts are: bring to completion; and make concrete or 
>> physically real.
>> 
>> This is one of those times when English is just soooooo frustrating. 
>> (Some of you may have more of these times that I do, I realize :-)!).
>> 
>> In English, "derive" usually means to change something, to "adapt" it, 
>> not to make an instance of it. That seems to be the sense in the EDM
> vocabulary.
>> 
>> That said, since no word is going to be perfect... I think we're back 
>> to Instance unless folks think that we can sneak in "realizationOf". 
>> Or maybe just switch to French when it's convenient. ;-)
>> 
>> kc
>> 
>> 
>> On 3/21/13 11:16 AM, Antoine Isaac wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear all,
>>> 
>>> Following the discussion we had today on the work-instance 
>>> relationship [1] and the proposal to label it with something like 
>>> "derivative", I copy below some definition bits for the property 
>>> isDerivativeOf from the Europeana Data Model [2].
>>> Not that I want to push it by all means. Maybe you'll want a 
>>> different definition. As long as it works... But I don't see why I'd 
>>> conceal it, if there's something to be re-used instead of this group 
>>> working hard to re-invent his own words.
>>> 
>>> I'm going to ask the people in the task force I've mentioned if they 
>>> can send museum or archive examples using this property.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Antoine
>>> 
>>> [1] http://www.w3.org/community/schemabibex/wiki/Work-Instance
>>> [2] http://pro.europeana.eu/edm-documentation
>>> 
>>> ==========
>>> 
>>> Definition: "This property [...] relates a resource to another one, 
>>> obtained by reworking, reducing, expanding, parts or the whole 
>>> contents of the former, and possibly adding some minor parts. 
>>> Versions have an even narrower meaning, in that it requires common 
>>> identity between the related resources. Translations, summaries, 
>>> abstractions etc. do not qualify as versions, but do qualify as
> derivatives."
>>> 
>>> Obligation & Occurrence: A resource may be a derivative of to 0 to 
>>> many resources. Conversely, a resource may have 0 to many resources 
>>> that are derivative of its.
>>> 
>>> Example: The Italian translation of Moby Dick is a derivation of the 
>>> original work.
>>> 
>>> Rationale: This property enables associating resources that are one 
>>> the derivation of the other. This is required since Europeana may 
>>> collect descriptions about resources and their derivations. It also 
>>> supports browsing of resources by derivation. Finally, it allows the 
>>> integration of all properties used in content providers' descriptions 
>>> that capture the notion of derivation in the sense outlined above, 
>>> such as those capturing versioning, translations and abstractions. To 
>>> this end, any such properties should be declared to be a (direct or 
>>> indirect) sub-property of edm:isDerivativeOf.
>> 
>> --
>> Karen Coyle
>> kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
>> ph: 1-510-540-7596
>> m: 1-510-435-8234
>> skype: kcoylenet
> 
>

Received on Friday, 22 March 2013 11:58:02 UTC