See also: IRC log
<leora> Adrian, I just made a bunch of changes to the UCR document.
<leora> Chris, I did the changes you requested to UCR, including softening the statements that something CANNOT be represented in BLD. (See the intro.)
<ChrisW> Scribe: PaschkeAdrian
<ChrisW> scribenick: PaschkeAdrian
<ChrisW> Last meeting minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Sep/att-0020/2010-09-14-rif-minutes.html
<ChrisW> PROPOSED: accept last week's minutes
<ChrisW> RESOLVED: accept last week's minutes
<ChrisW> close action-1053
<trackbot> ACTION-1053 Review UCR closed
<trackbot> ACTION-1051 Annotate use cases wrt implmentability w existing dialects closed
Leora: need to add a summary of
Christian's XML document
... would prefer to leave it out since it is not finished yet
<Harold> Note that RIF+XML-Data already is in http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Overview#A_General_Survey_of_the_RIF_Documents
csma: motivation is report on the
combination of RIF and XML data since the other combinations
are in the primer
... want to show that you can use RIF also with other formats not just Semantic Web data / formats
Harold: OWL2RL is not in the primer as well
ChrisW: thought we can write
different primers with different focus
... but do not have the bandwith
Doug: would be good to have a list of what is missing
Doug: make it explicit what this document does not cover
Leora: there is already a section about this
Sandro: primer mostly about Core, i.e. RIF Core Primer
ChrisW: yes we can make it more specific
Harold: 5.1 mentions equality
Sandro: yes, is the only section
... prefer to have it as a RIF Core primer
Harold: built-ins are also in PRD
<Harold> We have "RIF Datatypes and Built-Ins 1.0"
Leora: problem of time to address all dialects in the Primer, e..g would be good to address PRD as well, but no time for it
ChrisW: what about RIF Primer for Logic
Leora: to generic title
<DaveReynolds> Suspect my mic isn't working. The document primarily mentions BLD not Core. The examles and features might be mostly the Core subset but the prose keeps referring to BLD>
<ChrisW> I suggest "RIF Logic Primer"
Sandro: if we call it RIF Core primer we should take out section 5.1
Leora: we need 5.1
Sandro: get someone else to contribute PRD to Primer
Garry: can contribute something
<ChrisW> ACTION: Gary to try and add a PRD section to primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/21-rif-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1054 - Try and add a PRD section to primer [on Gary Hallmark - due 2010-09-28].
<sandro> ACTION: Gary to contribute a PRD section like the BLD section (5.1) to the Primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/21-rif-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1055 - Contribute a PRD section like the BLD section (5.1) to the Primer [on Gary Hallmark - due 2010-09-28].
<ChrisW> close action-1054
<trackbot> ACTION-1054 Try and add a PRD section to primer closed
Sandro: will correct some additional review comments in the primer
csma: review comments from Gary
... abbreviated presentation synatx, although not normative, is used, since it is more compact
... need to change the EBNF
... implementation dependent - undefined; will change this
... singelton list - in Schema you know if it is a list or not;
... without schema, i.e. just data, hard to know if it is a list or singel data
... depends on the application in casw without schema
Gary: zero linked lists should be mentioned
csma: regarding comment on
"modify XMl document"
... benefit of abstract model is, that it does not specify the semantics for adding data to the source XML document
... it is up to your application if it reserializes inferred data
... next point - consumer side input; should that apply to OWL-RDF data
... question is, can we make a technical note of this spec. although it is only an initial spec, e.g. withouth beeing detailed
... only 1 1/2 week left
Gary: would be good if more
people read it; short time frame is a concern; so it will not
be complete and consistent
... would be good to have it as placeholder; do not know about the procedure ehre
ChrisW: release it as working draft next week; last working group meeting next week
Sandro: can publish as a note
ChrisW: sound more like a draft than a note
csma: can we leave editors notes in a note?
Sandro: we can do what we want; either note or working draft
<StellaMitchell> zakom, ??p10 is me
ChrisW: think working draft is the right state to leave it when the working group ends, to point out that it is not finished
csma: agree, prefer WD as well
<sandro> cmsa: agreed -- XML-Data will be a WD in the next (last) version.
ChrisW: will vote on publication
... what can be done by then
csma: will work on Garys
... asked Jos and Michael
cmsa: Jos reviewed an older version; Michael will be travelling
csma: maybe Jos can do, but good to have anotehr reviewer
<ChrisW> ACTION: Adrian to review XML data [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/21-rif-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1056 - Review XML data [on Adrian Paschke - due 2010-09-28].
Stella: proposed to remove section http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR#Structure_of_RIF
Leora: add a link to the RIF overview document
Stella: add RIf PRD in the bullet list
Harold: in the bullet list which
are relevant to the use cases
... in the bullet list only those dialects that are relevant to the use cases
Leora: Stella to review the changes by Leora
<csma> Typo: second bullet in section 3: use present, not past tense
Stella: distinction between general and basic requirements http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/UCR#Requirements
Leora: had some historic reasons;
csma: basic requirements where
from an earlier version of UCR where we had critical success
factors, phase I and phase II requirement etc.
... later we simplified it
ChrisW: get rid of the distinction
Adrian: will list them as
requirements; will change it
... changes from Leora are open; from this morning
ChrisW: looks ready for publication
<sandro> plan is to publish UCR as Note.
Sandro: publish as note
ChrisW: will be voted next week
Leora: want to add a reference on deontic logic; which is mentioned in one of the comments
Stella: approved all test
... Sandro wanted to add a new one about RIF XMl data
... section on test results 6.2
... test results page might be removed?
... result page is not complete;
<csma> There are 4 test cases in the "proposed" section, and 5 in the "in development" section...
<csma> What do we do with them?
Leora: should be linked from some document, so that we do not lose it
ChrisW: could be used in a
... csma what about the 4 open test cases?
csma: if I have time I will work on them; I have the XML, but need to update the PS
Sandro: can use tool for translation from XML to PS
csma: does it support PRD
Sandro: probably yes; do not know if it is working
csma: will send you the XML
Stella: test cases also need to be structure as entailment test
csma: will look at it
... other test cases (in development)
Stella: three UCR use cases
csma: equality test cases
Adrian: was the original use case and later refined to different factorial use cases
csma: do we want nothing left "in development"?
ChrisW: no oppinion about it
csma: can drop the equality test
... is the same a factorial
<ChrisW> next meeting in 1 week, last meeting!
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: PaschkeAdrian Found ScribeNick: PaschkeAdrian Default Present: LeoraMorgenstern, Sandro, Harold, +1.512.342.aaaa, DaveReynolds, ChrisW, Doug, PaschkeAdrian, Gary_Hallmark, +220.127.116.11.aabb, csma, StellaMitchell Present: LeoraMorgenstern Sandro Harold +1.512.342.aaaa DaveReynolds ChrisW Doug PaschkeAdrian Gary_Hallmark +18.104.22.168.aabb csma StellaMitchell WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 21 Sep 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/09/21-rif-minutes.html People with action items: adrian gary[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]