W3C

- DRAFT -

RIF Telecon 9-Mar-2010

09 Mar 2010

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
AdrianP, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, ChrisW, Harold, Sandro, +49.08.aaaa, josb, csma, Gary, DaveReynolds, MichaelKifer
Regrets
StellaMitchell, LeoraMorgenstern
Chair
Chris Welty
Scribe
AdrianPaschke

Contents


<ChrisW> Scribe: AdrianPaschke

<ChrisW> scribenick: AdrianP

ChrisW: no minutes from last week

<ChrisW> *Summer time*: North America will move to summer time on March 14, Europe

<ChrisW> on March 28

<ChrisW> => Telecons March 16 and 23 will be one

<ChrisW> hour early in Europe!

ChrisW: next weeks telecon for European it will be an hour earlier

Liason

<Harold> Axel?

<sandro> AxelPolleres, can you call in today?

Sandro: no news from SPARQL

Action review

<ChrisW> action-986 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-986 Bring up http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/RDF_Combination_Constant_Equivalence_2 with Jos closed

<LeoraMorgenstern> I'll send my minutes end of the week. (just got your email, Chris.)

action-985 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-985 Get Jos to add changelog for SWC closed

action-981 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-981 Send response to Ian Horrocks closed

<josb> +q

<ChrisW> ACTION: josb to fix and respond to editorial changes in swc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-987 - Fix and respond to editorial changes in swc [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2010-03-16].

action-984 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-984 Update change log for BLD, coordinating with Harold. closed

<csma> > The definition of the 'Const' element in [2] refers to the 'xml:lang'

<csma> > attribute.

<csma> > Is this attribute for the reader's information only, or does it affect the

<csma> > back transformation from XML syntax to presentation syntax?

<csma> > If so, which of the following XML fragments are valid and what are their

<csma> > back transformations?

<csma> > <Const type="&rdf;PlainLiteral" xml:lang="en">abc</Const>

<csma> > <Const type="&rdf;PlainLiteral" xml:lang="en">abc@</Const>

<csma> > <Const type="&rdf;PlainLiteral" xml:lang="en">abc@de</Const>

<ChrisW> "abc"@en^^rdf:plainLiteral

<ChrisW> "abc@"@en^^rdf:plainLiteral

<ChrisW> "abc@de"@en^^rdf:plainLiteral

<josb> "abc@de@en"^^rdf:plainLiteral

Jos: sure that this is the right presentation syntax?

<DaveReynolds> Sorry, got cut off. DTB does define @ shortcut

<Harold> Currently: Const ::= '"' UNICODESTRING '"^^' SYMSPACE | CONSTSHORT

Christian: is it ambigious?

<josb> "abc@de"@en

<DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/DTB#Shortcuts_for_Constants_in_RIF.27s_Presentation_Syntax

Dave: in DTB 2.2.2 there is shortcut syntax

<josb> as defined by DTB, "abc@de"@en is shortcut for "abc@de@en"^^rdf:plainLiteral

<Harold> CONSTSHORT ::= ... | '"' UNICODESTRING '"' '@' langtag

<ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Response_to_AR4

Harold: action-938 is related to the current discussion
... have a comment near by the grammar and syntax

ChrisW: let's just add a comment about it

<scribe> ACTION: Harold to add note to BLD, Core about plain literals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-988 - Add note to BLD, Core about plain literals [on Harold Boley - due 2010-03-16].

Public COmments

At risk features

<csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Features_At_Risk

Sandro: we where concerned if it can be implemented
... - think we can do it

<ChrisW> *PROPOSED:* keep the 1-to-1 lists (feature at risk)

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep the 1-to-1 lists (feature at risk)

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep the 1-to-1 lists, removing it from at-risk features for PR

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep the 1-to-1 lists in SWC, removing it from at-risk features for PR

<ChrisW> +1

<DaveReynolds> +1

<josb> +1

<Harold> +1

<MichaelKifer> +1

+1

<sandro> +1

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: keep the 1-to-1 lists in SWC, removing it from at-risk features for PR

ChrisW: next equality in the head

http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/BLD#Formulas

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep equality in rule conclusions for BLD, removing it from at-risk features for PR

<Harold> +1

<ChrisW> +1

<DaveReynolds> 0

<josb> +1

+1

<sandro> +0 i like it but slightly worried about implementation burden

Christian: Did the implementers implement it?

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: keep equality in rule conclusions for BLD, removing it from at-risk features for PR

ChrisW: at least in the reports they did not say "they don't"

<csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/BLD#Conformance_Clauses

Christian: Do not know the scope of the feature? If it is only about strictness no problem to remove it

Jos: strictness is a limitation the definition of conformance for consumer and producer. They only need to support the datatypes in DTB

Harold: could use can

<Harold> Michael?

<Harold> With 'can' we could stress that both modes are equally conformant.

<Harold> Do we have any comment about that "At Risk" from implementers?

Sandro: may sentence needs further clarification

<josb> HTML existed before XML

csma: add a comment about extensions for conformant producers

<josb> I don't say it forbids extensions

<josb> indeed, you are no longer conformant if you support extensions

Sandro: would like to a "in strict mode" to make clear that extension are not forbidden in general

<Gary> why not drop the requirement and change "A conformant RIF-BLD consumer must reject all inputs that do not match the syntax of BLD." to "A conformant RIF-BLD consumer must accept all inputs that match the syntax of BLD.

<csma> +1

<josb> I would abstain as well

<MichaelKifer> I'd abstain, although I think it is not a good restriction

<josb> (prefer non-strictness, as I was also arguing in Galway)

<josb> I would

<Harold> What about: -- having modes for strict BLD and for BLD running with extensions.

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep the DL-safeness restriction (feature at risk)

<josb> +1

<DaveReynolds> +1

<Harold> +1

+1

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep dl-stafeness restriction in SWC, removing it from at-risk features for PR

<ChrisW> +1

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: keep dl-stafeness restriction in SWC, removing it from at-risk features for PR

ChrisW: removing at risk features should be recorded in the change lock
... Indexing from zero

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: keep keep indexing lists from zero in DTB, removing it from at-risk features for PR

<ChrisW> +1

<josb> +1

+1

<DaveReynolds> +0 (number from 0 is right but having both conventions in one spec is confusing)

<Harold> +1

<Gary> +1

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: keep keep indexing lists from zero in DTB, removing it from at-risk features for PR

ChrisW: return to the strictness at risk feature
... extension request
... we need to be at least the implementations finished
... need to put more pressure on the implementers

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: extend 5 minutes

<csma> +1

ChrisW: DTB needs implementation
... implementer at CTTIT left
... need to activate the community

<Gary> I have datetime, lists, numerics, and string builtin tests working

ChrisW: list for each implementation which datatypes and built-ins are supported by them

<ChrisW> ACTION: mkifer contact mdean for list of datatypes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-989 - Contact mdean for list of datatypes [on Michael Kifer - due 2010-03-16].

<Harold> Sandro and Chris, you mentioned a few weeks ago that you are in contact with Jos de Roo about his Euler Eye implementation of DTB?

<scribe> ACTION: Michael to contact Mike Dean and ask which DTB type are supported [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Michael

<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. msintek, mkifer, merdmann)

<sandro> PROPOSED: We'll ask for a 6 month extension, contingent on WG requesting PR by the end March. Should proceed to Rec in May; WG intends to work on tutorial, test cases, and several Notes during these 6 months.

<scribe> ACTION: MichaelKifer to contact Mike Dean and ask which DTB type are supported [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - MichaelKifer

<scribe> ACTION: kifer to contact Mike Dean and ask which DTB type are supported [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-990 - Contact Mike Dean and ask which DTB type are supported [on Michael Kifer - due 2010-03-16].

<Harold> +1

<ChrisW> +1 to extension

+1

<sandro> RESOLVED: We'll ask for a 6 month extension, contingent on WG requesting PR by the end March. Should proceed to Rec in May; WG intends to work on tutorial, test cases, and several Notes during these 6 months.

<Gary> +1

<MichaelKifer> +1

<ChrisW> ACTION: sandro to contact chime about DTB support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-991 - Contact chime about DTB support [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-03-16].

<ChrisW> ACTION: csma to contact changhai about DTB support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-992 - Contact changhai about DTB support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-03-16].

<ChrisW> ACTION: csma to contact jderoo about DTB support or get from implementation report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action09]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-993 - Contact jderoo about DTB support or get from implementation report [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-03-16].

<ChrisW> adjourned

<josb> bye

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: csma to contact changhai about DTB support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: csma to contact jderoo about DTB support or get from implementation report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: Harold to add note to BLD, Core about plain literals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: josb to fix and respond to editorial changes in swc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: kifer to contact Mike Dean and ask which DTB type are supported [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael to contact Mike Dean and ask which DTB type are supported [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: MichaelKifer to contact Mike Dean and ask which DTB type are supported [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: mkifer contact mdean for list of datatypes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: sandro to contact chime about DTB support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html#action07]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/03/09 17:40:38 $

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/last week/end of the week/
Succeeded: s/MAY/can/
Found Scribe: AdrianPaschke
Found ScribeNick: AdrianP
Default Present: AdrianP, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, ChrisW, Harold, Sandro, +49.08.aaaa, josb, csma, Gary, DaveReynolds, MichaelKifer
Present: AdrianP Hassan_Ait-Kaci ChrisW Harold Sandro +49.08.aaaa josb csma Gary DaveReynolds MichaelKifer
Regrets: StellaMitchell LeoraMorgenstern
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Mar/0021.html
Got date from IRC log name: 09 Mar 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-rif-minutes.html
People with action items: csma harold josb kifer michael michaelkifer mkifer sandro

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