W3C

- DRAFT -

Rule Interchange Format Working Group Teleconference

08 Apr 2008

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Sandro, ChrisW, IgorMozetic, Harold, AxelPolleres, +1.631.833.aaaa, MichaelKifer, Mark_Proctor, Gary_Hallmark, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, +6928aabb, csma
Regrets
DaveReynolds, PaulVincent, JosDeBruijn
Chair
Chris Welty
Scribe
IgorMozetic

Contents


 

 

<trackbot-ng> Date: 08 April 2008

<ChrisW> Meeting: RIF Telecon 8-Apr-08

Admin

<ChrisW> Scribe: IgorMozetic

<ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Apr/att-0017/01-04-2008-rif-minutes.html

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: accept minutes of April 1 telecon

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: accept minutes of April 1 telecon

F2f10

Axel: no news on F2F10

Actions

Michael: metadata are described as frames and added to the rules/rulesets

Axel: status of DT&B - version for review by Friday, April 11

Liaison

Pub Plan

chrisw: we have frozen versions of FLD nad BLD

Michael: we have a notion of scope (corresponding to block in PLs)

<Harold> "rif:local constant in different documents are viewed as unrelated distinct constants" <http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/FLD#Symbol_Spaces>

<ChrisW> ACTION: mkifer to add definition of rif:local to BLD [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/08-rif-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-461 - Add definition of rif:local to BLD [on Michael Kifer - due 2008-04-15].

<Hassan> I made the same comments as ChrisW and Dave Raynolds made re. "Group"

michael: a base case for metadata is a group of rules, not a single rule

chrisw: group vs. block is not decided yet, it seems an aestetic issue

<ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/draft/rif-bld/

<ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/draft/rif-fld/

<AxelPolleres> until end of next week ok?

<ChrisW> need reviews by april 15th

chrisw: volunteers for review by next week, April 15

<AxelPolleres> can try bld until then, but not both

<ChrisW> ACTION: axel to review bld [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/08-rif-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-462 - Review bld [on Axel Polleres - due 2008-04-15].

<markproctor> sorry I'm just not going to get the time at the moment.

sandro to send an email to the group, searching for reviewers

sandro: deadline for publication request is noon, April 15
... actual publication deadline is April 17
... will prepare the request

<sandro> ACTION: Chris to send e-mail telling the group about us making publication decision on 15 April. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/08-rif-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-463 - Send e-mail telling the group about us making publication decision on 15 April. [on Christopher Welty - due 2008-04-15].

<AxelPolleres> ok.

<sandro> Chris: Let us know as soon as possible about any issues with new draft.

chrisw: the group will decide on April 15 to publish or not

<sandro> Harold: Keep in mind that this is Working Draft (and FPWD of FLD).

harold: it's WD1 for FLD and WD2 for BLD

michael: BLD will eventually refer to DT&B document regarding rif:local

chrisw: BLD should be as self contained as possible
... a short mention of what rif:local is would be helpful

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Repeal resolution regarding moving "RIF-BLD as a specialization of FLD" to appendix and keep that as section 2

<Hassan> -1

michael: every dialect should be specialization of FLD, therefore this section
... might be even more important then the BLD document itself

hassan: argues that this fits into the appendix

chrisw: for implementors of BLD, FLD is not required
... for dialect designers FLD is essential
... proposes to move sec.2 to the last section

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Repeal resolution regarding moving "RIF-BLD as a specialization of FLD" to appendix and keep that as section 5

<Hassan> +1

<ChrisW> PROPOSED: Repeal resolution regarding moving "RIF-BLD as a specialization of FLD" to appendix and keep that as last section before refs

<sandro> +0 I prefer appendix, but this is fine.

<Hassan> +1

<AxelPolleres> +1

<MichaelKifer> +0

<IgorMozetic> +0, I prefer as it is now

<Harold> +0

<ChrisW> +0

<ChrisW> RESOLVED: Repeal resolution regarding moving "RIF-BLD as a specialization of FLD" to appendix and keep that as last section before refs

Syntax/Metadata

<Harold> What about a brief para at the end of the Overview suggesting two possible 'workflows' through the document? Something like: Dialect designers and readers who want to understand comprehensively should read the last section of the document (before the references) next. Other readers just proceed sequentially.

hassan: would prefer an abridged version of presentation syntax

<GaryHallmark> +1 for better syntax

<GaryHallmark> but "better" is subjective...

hassan: better name for "Group" -> maybe "RuleSet"
... names will last, we have to pick them carefully

<csma> issue-49: Naming in RIF-BLD EBNF and XML syntax

<Harold> We use "Group" because FLD has formulas more general than rules and because it's just a grouping construct.

hassan: the core (presentation) syntax is good for reading, but lacks detail for tools

<GaryHallmark> ideally, the use cases in the UCR can be expressed in presentation syntax and this would serve as a good introduction and advertisement for RIF

michael: RuleSet is not neutral to other dialects

<Harold> For a later WD, we could have an Abridged presentation syntax as well as the current Full presentation syntax. Hassan and I looked at this:

<Harold> Full presentation syntax Abridged presentation syntax Remark

<Harold> "foo:bar"^^rif:iri <foo:bar> IETF's angular bracket notation

<Harold> purchase^^rif:local purchase locality by default

<Harold> "a b c"^^xsd:string "a b c" Full: quotes are part of ^ syntax

<Harold> "10"^^xsd:integer 10 as in programming languages

<Harold> "1000000000"^^xsd:long 1000000000 as in programming languages

<Harold> "3.14"^^xsd:decimal 3.14 as in programming languages

<Harold> . . .

<GaryHallmark> how about X and Y instead of And(X Y)

<GaryHallmark> how about B if A instead of B :- A

michael: a problem if there is a different syntaxt between defined language and examples

<csma> Gray, in PRD, it would be if A then B; That's why I believe that presentation syntaxes should be different in different dialects

harold: proposes a shorthand (abridged) syntaxt, presentation syntax, and XML

<GaryHallmark> csma - then what is the presentation syntax of Core>

<Harold> The Abridged presentation syntax could be just a SHORTHAND for test cases.

<Harold> But let's not do it in this round. We cannot risk any delay for our Apr 15 and 17 deadlines!

michael: doesn't object adding a shortcut (abridged) syntax to examples

<sandro> Chris: This is NOT for this publication round.

<sandro> MichaelKifer: Let's think about this (presentation syntax issues) after the 16ths.

<csma> Gary, any, or both... the prez syntax is not normative, it is not interchanged; the XML is

<AxelPolleres> +1

<sandro> NONBINDING-PROPOSAL: Allow shortcuts in Presentation SYntax?

<sandro> +1

<Hassan> +1

<AxelPolleres> :-) please!

all: let's try common shortcuts for the abridged presentation syntax

<GaryHallmark> +1

+1

<Harold> +1 (There could be an *additional* Appendix in BLD WD3)

<DavidHirtle> +1

AOB

+1

<csma> ok

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: axel to review bld [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/08-rif-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Chris to send e-mail telling the group about us making publication decision on 15 April. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/08-rif-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: mkifer to add definition of rif:local to BLD [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/08-rif-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.133 (CVS log)
$Date: 2008/04/08 16:10:57 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/final version/version for review/
Succeeded: s/bse/base/
Succeeded: s/understand/understand comprehensively/
Found Scribe: IgorMozetic
Inferring ScribeNick: IgorMozetic
Default Present: Sandro, ChrisW, IgorMozetic, Harold, AxelPolleres, +1.631.833.aaaa, MichaelKifer, Mark_Proctor, Gary_Hallmark, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, +6928aabb, csma
Present: Sandro ChrisW IgorMozetic Harold AxelPolleres +1.631.833.aaaa MichaelKifer Mark_Proctor Gary_Hallmark Hassan_Ait-Kaci +6928aabb csma
Regrets: DaveReynolds PaulVincent JosDeBruijn
Found Date: 08 Apr 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/04/08-rif-minutes.html
People with action items: axel chris mkifer

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]