RIF Telecon

27 Mar 2007

See also: IRC log


Sandro, Francois, Deborah, Harold, MikeDean, Igor, Hassan, Alex, DavidHirtle, DaveReynolds, ChrisW, JosDB, AxelPolleres, GiorgosStoilos, Allen, GaryHallmark, mkifer
PaulaLaviniaPatranjan, PaulVincent, PeterPatelSchneider, MichaelSintek
Mike Dean




<sandro> Attendees: Sandro, Francois, Deborah, Harold, MikeDean, Igor, Hassan, Alex, DavidHirtle, DaveReynolds, ChrisW

<sandro> +JosDB

<ChrisW> scribenick: mdean

<ChrisW> Scribe: Mike Dean

<sandro> (number of callers - 13)

<ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Mar/att-0066/20-rif-minutes.html


RESOLUTION: minutes accepted

<sandro> Allen, are you on the call?

no agenda amendments

<Allen> yes

<sandro> +Allen

ChrisW: regular telecon next week - Zakim should be back

<sandro> all telecon slots accounted for.

<sandro> (ie attendee list is accurate)


<Hassan> June 2 and 3

ChrisW: F2F6 in Innsbruck June 2-3

josb: meeting will be at university
... will need count a couple weeks before

ACTION-267 complete


email from Paul Vincent on PRR - spec delayed

no other liaison news

agenda items 2 and 3 reversed


action review

ACTION-266 complete by Deborah

ACTION-269 complete by harold

ACTION-270 complete by harold

ACTION-273 complete by mkifer

<ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/core/draft-20070323.html

ChrisW: Working Draft - frozen March 23 version

josb: possible confusion over general framework vs. RIF Core dialect - not yet introduced
... suggest changing intro text

<AxelPolleres> sorry

<Hassan> It shouldn't

josb: doesn't present dialect itself

ChrisW: should RIF Core be a dialect?

mkifer: document presents more than RIF Core, but much less than a dialect
... may confuse some readers

ChrisW: how important is this?

josb: might lead to a lot of confusion

<sandro> scribenick: mdean

Harold: represents first draft of dialect?

josb: no - doesn't say what a dialect is

ChrisW: maybe OK for first draft - elicit this type of feedback

<AlexKozlenkov> Why does it not represent the first draft of the RIF Core dialect?

mkifer: suggest jos send updated paragraphs

ChrisW: not for this Working Draft - too late
... today approve for public release based on authors completing the actions agreed to at F2F5
... WD release process isn't instantaneous
... updated paragraphs available now?

josb: will send to list now

<josb> My phrasing suggestions: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Mar/0125.html

ChrisW: any other comments

Deborah: semantics of multi-worded RIF conditions, type is used where signature or sort would be expected - confusing
... will send email

mkifer: small comments from Alex

<Hassan> I received them as well Alex

Alex: just sent to Harold?

mkifer: issue (exists) sent to list

Alex: issue should be addressed in future Working Draft

<Harold> Alex sent:

<Harold> In, about the text “only to function terms that belong”. I do not fully understand that. ?v can be bound not necessarily to function terms but also primitive constants.

<Harold> In, I_F definition, it says I_F(d_1,…,d_k). This should read I_F(f)(d_1,…,d_k), otherwise I do not get it.

<Harold> Also the introduction says that the focus of WD1 is the condition language (not rules?). Is that so?

no other fixes/edits

<josb> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Mar/0125.html

sandro: current draft does not specify RIF Core? it just lays groundwork?

josb: yes

<Hassan> I second Jos's rewording -hak

taking a minute for everyone to read Jos's message

mkifer: never says that RIF Core is a rule language

<AlexKozlenkov> it looks like the overview is a bit of touch really

ChrisW: does seem like an omission

<Deborah_Nichols> +1 to what Michael says wrt RIF being a 'format' but not rule language

sandro: potentially contentious

<DaveReynolds> The Overview does say "A dialect is a rule language ..."

ChrisW: abstract seems OK

discussion of Jos's message

<Hassan> As an interchange language, readers will expect as least one full worked out *exchange* between two real-life rule languages... (say, Edinburgh Prolog and Colmerauer's Prolog III)

Harold: which will be presented in next version?

<josb> I'm fine with that

Harold: perhaps: will be developed in future Working Drafts instead
... we do have a kind of draft of Core

Sandro: Jos's wording too dismissive of current draft

<Harold> The current document is a first draft of the RIF framework, sufficient

<Harold> for the specification of RIF Core, which will be presented in the next

<Harold> version of this document.

ChrisW: keep document as is
... architecture document should help clarify
... don't see this as a killer - but would like feedback from community
... accept typo fixes from Deborah and Alex
... straw poll on publishing current version as first Working Draft
... any anticipated objections?


Sandro recording votes - will send email later

1	Agfa-Gevaert N. V.     ABSENT
	Jos De Roo	
	Stan Devitt	
2	Betfair Limited        
	Alex Kozlenkov	       YES
3	Corticon Technologies, Inc.          ABSENT
	Pedram Abrari	
4	DERI Galway        
	Stefan Decker	
	Dieter Fensel	
	Andreas Harth	
        Axel Polleres	        YES
5	DERI Innsbruck    
	Darko Anicic	
	Jos de Bruijn	      YES
	Dieter Fensel	
	Hong-Gee Kim	
	Holger Lausen	
6	Electronics and Telecommunications Research Institute (ETRI)   ABSENT
	Minsu Jang	
7	Fair Isaac Corporation      ABSENT
	Don Griest	
	Bob Moore	
	James Taylor	
8	Forschungszentrum Informatik (FZI)   ABSENT
	Michael Erdmann	
	Pascal Hitzler	
	Markus Kr%G�%@tzsch	
9	Free University of Bozen-Bolzano   ABSENT
	Pablo Fillottrani	
	Enrico Franconi	
	Peter F. Patel-Schneider	
	Sergio Tessaris	
10	Fundacion CTIC    ABSENT
	Luis Polo	
11	German Research Center for Artificial Intelligence (DFKI) Gmbh  ABSENT
	Michael Sintek	
12	HP    
	Jeremy Carroll	
	Dave Reynolds	   YES
13	IBM Corporation 
	Stella Mitchell	
	Leora Morgenstern	
	Christopher Welty	Co-Chair    YES
14	ILOG, S.A.
	Hassan Ait-Kaci	      YES
	Philippe Bonnard	
	Christian de Sainte Marie	Co-Chair
	Mohamed ZERGAOUI	
16	Image, Video and Multimedia Systems Lab (IVML-NTUA)   
	Giorgos Stamou	
	Giorgos Stoilos	    YES
17	Institute of Informatics & Telecommunications (IIT), NCSR  ABSENT
	Alexandros Artikis	
	Stasinos Konstantopoulos	
	Pantelis Nasikas	
18	JBoss Inc.   ABSENT
	Mark Proctor	
19	Jozef Stefan Institute    
	Igor Mozetic	   YES
20	K-Space     ABSENT
	Vassilis Tzouvaras	
21	MITRE Corporation
	Allen Ginsberg	    YES
	Deborah Nichols	    (also on call)
	Leo Obrst	
	Suzette Stoutenburg	
22	Maryland Information and Network Dynamics Lab    ABSENT
	James Hendler	
	Bijan Parsia	
23	National ICT Australia (NICTA) Ltd    ABSENT
	Renato Iannella	
24	National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)   ABSENT
	Edward Barkmeyer	
	Evan Wallace	
25	National Research Council Canada
	Harold Boley	    YES
	Duong Doan	
	David Hirtle	    (also on call)
	Jing Mei	
	Bruce Spencer	
26	Nokia                 ABSENT
	Deepali Khushraj	
	Ora Lassila	
27	Object Management Group, Inc. (OMG)    ABSENT
	Donald Chapin	
	John Hall	
	Said Tabet	
28	Ontology Works    ABSENT
	William Andersen	
	Joshua Engel	
	Steven Matuszek	
29	Oracle Corporation
	Gary Hallmark	       YES
30	Other?
	Ugo Corda	
	Sven Groppe	
	Francis McCabe	
	Jeff Z. Pan	
31	Pragati Synergetic Research Inc.   ABSENT
	Mala Mehrotra	
	Piero Bonatti	
	Fran%G�%@ois Bry	   YES
	Adrian Giurca	
	Massimo Marchiori	
	Paula-Lavinia Patranjan	
	Uta Schwertel	
	Gerd Wagner	
33	SRI International
	Mike Dean	    YES
	David Martin	
	Guizhen Yang	
34	Sandpiper Software, Inc.   ABSENT
	Elisa Kendall	
	Francis McCabe	
35	TIBCO Software, Inc.    ABSENT
	Paul Vincent	
36	The Boeing Company   ABSENT
	David Jones	
	Michael Uschold	
37	University of Aberdeen, Computing Science   ABSENT
	Jeff Pan	
38	University of Manchester    ABSENT
	Ian Horrocks	
	Bijan Parsia	
	Uli Sattler	
39	W3C Invited Experts
	Benjamin Grosof	     ABSENT
	Michael Kifer	     YES
	Chris Menzel	     ABSENT
40	W3C/MIT
	Dan Connolly	Alternate Team Contact
	Sandro Hawke	Team Contact       YES

Anyone else on call? -- no.

<Hassan> ILOG votes YES for publication of the WD1 (hak representing)

<IgorMozetic> JSI vote: yes

<AlexKozlenkov> JBoss voted yes (communicated by Mark Proctor)

<AlexKozlenkov> JBoss voted remotely, they can send an e-mail confirmation if required

RESOLUTION: first Working Draft published

ChrisW: thanks to editors - real accomplishment

<sandro> Passed 15 YES, 0 Abstain, 0 No.

<ircleuser> :-)

ChrisW: finish meeting with action review - continue issue discussion next week
... new issues: URIs in text (via email), overlapping domains

ACTION-271 - discussion in email - misunderstanding - complete by jos

ACTION-266 complete

no other actions


action review

ChrisW: UCR waiting for review?

Allen: correct

sandro: image alt text as discussed in email message?
... alt doesn't necessarily have to be complete

<scribe> ACTION: Allen to add alt text for UCR [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/27-rif-minutes.html#action01]

<rifbot> Created ACTION-274 - Add alt text for UCR [on Allen Ginsberg - due 2007-04-03].

<sandro> (not so much "complete" as "lengthy")


RIFRAF actions to be discussed in 2 weeks



<Allen> bye

<AlexKozlenkov> Thank you the editors and all

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Allen to add alt text for UCR [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/27-rif-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.128 (CVS log)
$Date: 2007/03/27 15:51:41 $