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Re: The processing rules for property/rel

From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 16:01:58 +0100
Cc: Gregg Kellogg <gregg@kellogg-assoc.com>, W3C RDFWA WG <public-rdfa-wg@w3.org>, Péter Mika <pmika@yahoo-inc.com>
Message-Id: <5A3C3643-58B9-4581-8581-C6FD9DB3FA36@w3.org>
To: Toby Inkster <tai@g5n.co.uk>
On Nov 1, 2011, at 14:35 , Toby Inkster wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:22:31 +0100
> Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
> 
>> with the maximalist @property behaviour I believe what would be
>> needed is:
>> 
>> [[[
>> <div typeof="http://schema.org/Event">
>> <div property="offers" typeof="http://schema.org/AggregateOffer">
>>   Priced from: <span property="lowPrice">$35</span>
>>   <span property="offerCount">1938</span> tickets left
>> </div>
>> </div>
>> ]]]
> 
> Surely any change that allowed the above would also change the meaning
> of:
> 
> 	<cite typeof="bibo:Book"
> 	  property="dc:title">Murder at End House</cite>
> 

Yes it would indeed. The probable way of doing that would be

<cite typeof="bibo:Book"><span property="dc:title">Murder at End House</span></cite>


> Changing something simple and so well-established as that seems like a
> non-starter to me.
> 
> I really don't see the fascination with aping microdata. Microdata
> already exists. We don't need to invent an exact clone of it. Microdata
> can't do all this in one element:
> 
> 	<a about="/#i" typeof="foaf:Person"
> 	   rel="foaf:homepage" rev="foaf:primaryTopic" href="/"
> 	   property="foaf:name">Toby Inkster</a>
> 

True, it cannot. But I do not think that is really the goal; very very few people would ever use that type of combination of all possible features on one element. 

(Note, by the way, that if we disregard the latest discussion on @typeof, and look at the minimalist version of the @property change, that code would remain intact:-))

The question is not aping microdata. It is whether we can get non-sophisticated users use RDFa at least on the Lite level. That is a major difference.

To make it clear, I am not convinced of the @typeof changes myself but we have to understand the tradeoffs. In terms of usage pattern, the tradeoff is whether

<cite typeof="bibo:Book"
	  property="dc:title">Murder at End House</cite>

is really the widespread pattern, which also requires an enclosing @rel in a usual page, like

<div about="#me" rel="ex:I_own">
    <cite typeof="bibo:Book" property="dc:title">Murder at End House</cite>
</div>

and whether something like

<div about="#me property="ex:I_own" typeof="bibo:Book">
   <span property="dc:title">Murder at End House</cite>
   <span property="dc:publisher">Pinguin Books</cite>
</div>

would be a more 'friendly' usage. The jury is still out... Maybe Peter Mika (explicitly cc-d) can tell us based on the Yahoo experience...

Ivan

> -- 
> Toby A Inkster
> <mailto:mail@tobyinkster.co.uk>
> <http://tobyinkster.co.uk>
> 
> 


----
Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
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Received on Tuesday, 1 November 2011 15:00:03 GMT

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