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Re: Potential Formal Object from DERI over JSON-LD

From: David Wood <david@3roundstones.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:06:00 -0400
Message-Id: <AA57A4CD-6413-461A-893C-031EBE31C03D@3roundstones.com>
Cc: RDF WG <public-rdf-wg@w3.org>
To: Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org>
On Oct 18, 2012, at 7:30, Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org> wrote:
>> You may recall that the WG resolved to publish two of the JSON-LD docs (not all four), starting with FPWD at [1].
> 
> For the record: unfortunately, at this meeting neither Richard nor myself seems to have been present. Can you confirm this please?

Yes, I confirm that.  Please note however that Richard was present (and voted +1) for this resolution on 30 May [1], which led in July to the FPWD resolution:
[[
RESOLVED: RDF-WG to publish JSON-LD syntax spec, and stripped-down version of JSON-LD API spec with framing and normalization removed, as FPWD, with intention to go on recommendation track
]]

The reason for the second resolution in July was that the JSON-LD editors were able to confirm by then that the necessary IPR commitments had been made.

Therefore, I suggest that not only has this ship sailed months ago, but DERI's position was in support.  If you are unhappy with the state of the document, though, we can certainly still tweak it (and probably will in any case).

Regards,
Dave

[1] http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-05-30#resolution_2

> 
> Cheers,
>       Michael
> 
> --
> Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
> DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
> NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
> Ireland, Europe
> Tel.: +353 91 495730
> http://mhausenblas.info/
> 
> On 18 Oct 2012, at 12:20, David Wood wrote:
> 
>> Hi Michael and all,
>> 
>> You may recall that the WG resolved to publish two of the JSON-LD docs (not all four), starting with FPWD at [1].
>> 
>> It would seem that your specific concerns regard marketing, not technology.  Manu has already committed to "put a section on RDF in the spec" [2].  I'm sure that he can adjust the wording if needed, but threatening a formal objection on non-technical grounds seems counterproductive.  Instead, can you please suggest some alternative wording for the spec?  Thanks.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-11#resolution_1
>> [2] http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-06-20#line0268
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 18, 2012, at 4:57, Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Thank you, Manu - you beat me to it ;)
>>> 
>>> Just to clarify: this is not about the quality or the amount of work that went into JSON-LD. Neither do I want to discuss its usefulness. I acknowledge that there are use cases where JSON-LD certainly serves well.
>>> 
>>> ## Why, oh why?
>>> 
>>> We're faced with a situation ATM that the JSON-LD proponents talk with two different groups: on the one hand us here in the WG and on the other hand to potential adopters such as Drupal or WikiData. Towards the former group the  JSON-LD proponents keep maintaining that JSON-LD is in fact an RDF serialization. Towards the latter stake holders, the  JSON-LD proponents claim that JSON-LD has nothing to do with RDF.
>>> 
>>> You can't have the cake and eat it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ## Options
>>> 
>>> Now, to break it down, I see two options:
>>> 
>>> 1. JSON-LD is indeed considered as an official RDF serialization by the  JSON-LD proponents. Then, JSON-LD has to follow the RDF model 100% - no more exceptions, no new terms, etc.
>>> 2. JSON-LD is not considered as an official RDF serialization by the  JSON-LD proponents, in which case I propose to stop continuing on the REC track in the RDF WG, effective immediately.
>>> 
>>> Again, it is unfortunate that this surfaces so late in the process but I was observing the JSON-LD development (in RDF WG land and outside) for a while now and was sort of - admittedly naïvely - hoping it would sort out by itself.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>>     Michael
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
>>> DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
>>> NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
>>> Ireland, Europe
>>> Tel.: +353 91 495730
>>> http://mhausenblas.info/
>>> 
>>> On 17 Oct 2012, at 20:18, Manu Sporny wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Michael Hausenblas wrote:
>>>>> (with my DERI AC rep and RDF WG member hat on) I will strongly
>>>>> advise the [RDF] WG to abandon REC track for JSON-LD.
>>>> 
>>>> The rest of the conversation is here:
>>>> 
>>>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/102497386507936526460/posts/KCVJVLNZKNb?cfem=1
>>>> 
>>>> Bringing it to the groups attention so we're not blind-sided by it
>>>> during FTF3, LC or CR.
>>>> 
>>>> -- manu
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny)
>>>> President/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>>> blog: HTML5 and RDFa 1.1
>>>> http://manu.sporny.org/2012/html5-and-rdfa/
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
Received on Thursday, 18 October 2012 12:06:54 GMT

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