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Re: Turtle in HTML question/issue

From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:19:53 +0100
Message-Id: <667F9A84-7F99-46A8-9629-30664C6E8F12@w3.org>
Cc: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, W3C RDF WG <public-rdf-wg@w3.org>, Jeni Tennison <jeni@jenitennison.com>, Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>
To: Gavin Carothers <gavin@topquadrant.com>

On 15 Nov 2011, at 19:36, Gavin Carothers <gavin@topquadrant.com> wrote:

[snip]

> 
>> 
>> However. I wonder whether it makes sense for the surrounding RDFa content to have some effect on the turtle portion. Namely:
>> 
>> - base setting in HTML (which is also the base for the generated RDF from RDFa) would be a @base for the encoded turtle. AFAIK we discussed that at some point, but I have not found it in [1]
> 
> There is a need for specific language. But I'm not sure that
> supporting using the HTML base the best way to go. The UA would need
> to support <base> @xml:base and the base URI DOM API in order to be
> compliant with the HTML5 notion of base. And exactly how that
> interacts with @base would also need to be defined. This would also do
> some odd things to copy and paste safety.
> 
>> - maybe more importantly: if RDFa sets a bunch of prefix declarations (and in RDFa there are even some defaults, eg, for rdf or foaf), I wonder whether those prefix declarations should not be valid as @prefix declarations in the embedded turtle. I think that would really be useful for HTML+RDFa authors.
> 
> Allowing the use of RDFa prefix declarations which can come from
> xmlns, prefix attributes, and vocab attributes would in my mind
> needlessly complicate the consumption and authoring of Turtle <script>
> fragments. Again it would greatly reduce copy and paste safety.
> 

First of all, I would consider only xmlns and prefix or, possibly, prefix only. Not vocab, that does not define a prefix.

I understand the issue of copy paste. On the other hand, if I author an RDFa file, where I define a load of prefixes, and then I have to repeat the whole thing again is also error prone and certainly a paini the neck. Ie, I am not convinced the balance is again the reusage of prefixes. The same holds for base, referring to the previous issue...

>> - SVG already has a way to add RDF/XML as metadata, as well as the possibility to add RDFa statements[2]. More interestingly, it also has a script element[3]. I think the Turtle syntax should allow for the same style of turtle embedding for SVG, too.
> 
> The script element (with the added CDATA directives) would work the
> same way as it does in XHTML.

Right. What I am saying is that the Turtle document should refer to SVG alongside HTML.


> 
>> 
>> B.t.w., I think it would be good to publish a Turtle draft soon with those features. This Turtle-in-HTML would be an important addition to the current approaches of embedding RDF data into HTML...
>> 
>> Thoughts?
> 
> I would like to publish a new draft before the of the month. Exactly
> what is included in it should be decided by the RDF WG. (N-Triples?
> Turtle in HTML? xsd datatypes?)
> 

I think turtle in html is important and good, and I would be in favour keepig in.

Ivan


> --Gavin
> 
>> 
>> Ivan
>> 
>> 
>> [1] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#in-html
>> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/metadata.html
>> [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/script.html#ScriptElement
>> 
>> ----
>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> mobile: +31-641044153
>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
Received on Tuesday, 15 November 2011 19:20:47 GMT

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