Re: [JSON] RDF collections and JSON arrays

On Mar 25, 2011, at 3:59 AM, Ivan Herman wrote:

> 
> On Mar 25, 2011, at 09:57 , Andy Seaborne wrote:
>> 
>> RDF collections being encoded in triples are very hard to deal with generally.  Next time, make them first class objects in the data model please.
>> 
> 
> Operative being 'next', not 'present' :-)

Awwww, you are no fun. 

Pat

> 
> Ivan
> 
> 
>> 	Andy
>> 
>> On 25/03/11 08:33, Steve Harris wrote:
>>> Equally I see using [ ] just to encode multiple object for a single
>>> subject and predicate as problematic, consider (in no particular
>>> syntax):
>>> 
>>> { ... "http://example.com/alice": { "foaf:name": "Alice" },
>>> "http://example.com/bob": { "foaf:name": [ "Bob", "Bob Smith" ] } }
>>> 
>>> That makes access to the data without a library tricky, as for every
>>> "object" you read, you'll need some conditional designed to test if
>>> it's an array/vector/list, or a literal value.
>>> 
>>> Though it makes the simple case uglier, it would probably be better
>>> to always use an array to represent objects, if the aim is to allow
>>> access without a library:
>>> 
>>> { ... "http://example.com/alice": { "foaf:name": [ "Alice" ] },
>>> "http://example.com/bob": { "foaf:name": [ "Bob", "Bob Smith" ] } }
>>> 
>>> I'm also not keen on [[ ]] for RDF collections, but don't see a
>>> sensible alternative. The triple-based representation is neither
>>> machine, nor human friendly, IMHO.
>>> 
>>> - Steve
>>> 
>>> On 2011-03-25, at 08:11, Ivan Herman wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I agree that having a syntactic sugar for lists would be a good
>>>> thing, similarly to what Turtle already has.
>>>> 
>>>> The problem is that the list syntax of JSON, ie, '[...]' is would
>>>> be very useful for cases when we'd want to define shortcuts. Eg,
>>>> the equivalent of
>>>> 
>>>> :a :b :c, :d .
>>>> 
>>>> in Turtle would make use of something like '[ :c, :d ]' and I am
>>>> not sure there is an alternative for that.
>>>> 
>>>> So no, it is not trivial nor obvious... Hence the slightly ugly
>>>> 
>>>> [[ :c,:d ]]
>>>> 
>>>> proposal that came up on the list. I would have to hold by nose
>>>> looking at that, but I do not see any radically different
>>>> alternative:-(
>>>> 
>>>> Ivan
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 25, 2011, at 24:25 , Pat Hayes wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Um... I am not sure if this is trivial or obvious, but has the WG
>>>>> thought about the RDF collections vocabulary in the JSON context?
>>>>> Since this is supposed to correspond as nearly as possible to a
>>>>> LISP list, it seems it would be 'natural' for an RDF collection
>>>>> to map into a JSON array. And if this is to round-trip, then
>>>>> these arrays must be somehow marked as coming from an RDF
>>>>> collection so that they can be mapped back into one.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I wish I had something more constructive to offer on this point,
>>>>> but I don't, other than to suggest it might turn out to be
>>>>> important, since the collection vocabulary is used to extensively
>>>>> in the OWL/RDF syntax. While OWL is not a prime target for our
>>>>> WG, it would seem to be a good idea to define a JSON mapping
>>>>> which does not completely screw up OWL, if at all possible.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just a 2c observation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Pat ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> IHMC                                     (850)434 8903 or
>>>>> (650)494 3973 40 South Alcaniz St.           (850)202 4416
>>>>> office Pensacola                            (850)202 4440   fax
>>>>> FL 32502                              (850)291 0667   mobile
>>>>> phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us       http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---- Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead Home:
>>>> http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ mobile: +31-641044153 PGP Key:
>>>> http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html FOAF:
>>>> http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +31-641044153
> PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------------------------------------
IHMC                                     (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973   
40 South Alcaniz St.           (850)202 4416   office
Pensacola                            (850)202 4440   fax
FL 32502                              (850)291 0667   mobile
phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us       http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes

Received on Friday, 25 March 2011 13:37:56 UTC