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Re: Oracle's stand regarding N-TRIPLES

From: Lee Feigenbaum <lee@thefigtrees.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 11:46:12 -0400
Message-ID: <4E4E8544.9090004@thefigtrees.net>
To: Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org>
CC: Ian Davis <ian.davis@talis.com>, Steve Harris <steve.harris@garlik.com>, public-rdf-wg@w3.org, Jeremy Carroll <jeremy@topquadrant.com>
On 8/19/2011 6:06 AM, Michael Hausenblas wrote:
>> But how many are Recommendations? One currently
>
> Still two, Ian. If you like it or not, RDFa is one since 2008 :P

3, right? what about n-triples itself?

Lee

>
> Cheers,
> Michael
> --
> Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
> LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
> DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
> NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
> Ireland, Europe
> Tel. +353 91 495730
> http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
> http://sw-app.org/about.html
>
> On 19 Aug 2011, at 11:04, Ian Davis wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Steve Harris
>> <steve.harris@garlik.com> wrote:
>> Internally we call it .nt8, FWIW.
>>
>> There's some appeal to just letting N-Triples rot and fall out of use,
>> and replacing it with something more modern. On the other hand we have
>> enough RDF syntaxes already.
>>
>>
>> Agree. But how many are Recommendations? One currently and we are
>> chartered to increase that to 4 (Turtle, JSON, N-Triples) so we
>> wouldn't be exceeding that number.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>> On 2011-08-19, at 10:26, Ian Davis wrote:
>>
>>> One option could be to leave ntriples where it is and give the utf8
>>> version a new name and put it on the REC track. U-Triples? (Maybe go
>>> further to U-Quads)
>>>
>>> On 19 Aug 2011 10:18, "Steve Harris" <steve.harris@garlik.com> wrote:
>>> > I agree with Jeremy.
>>> >
>>> > For us, the lack of UTF-8 support is a serious impediment to using
>>> N-Triples as a bulk dump/restore format.
>>> >
>>> > We use UTF-8 internally to hold RDF literals, as every other format
>>> is natively UTF-8, so the export to N-Triples requires a lot of
>>> unnecessary and inefficient escaping.
>>> >
>>> > - Steve
>>> >
>>> > On 2011-08-18, at 23:26, Jeremy Carroll wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Hi Zhe
>>> >>
>>> >> I find this a surprisingly strong position.
>>> >> When ingesting N-Triples the code path to read UTF-8 and the code
>>> path to read \uXXXX escape sequences are probably equally horrible.
>>> The UTF-8 code path is the more conventional one to be following on
>>> the Web.
>>> >>
>>> >> It seems like a fairly small amount of extra code for a vendor to
>>> support, with negligible impact on performance. The only downside,
>>> that I can see, would be that new data will not be readable by old
>>> software, which is the normal downside with new versions of a format.
>>> >>
>>> >> We may differ in our judgment about how important that downside
>>> is, or I may have missed some other disadvantage that motivates
>>> Oracle's strong reaction.
>>> >>
>>> >> My understanding is that 2004 N-triples docs will be valid turtle
>>> docs ....
>>> >>
>>> >> Jeremy
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 8/18/2011 9:05 AM, Zhe Wu wrote:
>>> >>> Hi,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> After discussing with the whole Oracle Database Semantic
>>> Technologies team, we
>>> >>> have the following consensus within Oracle.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 1) The existing N-TRIPLES format [1] is key to Oracle's product;
>>> >>> 2) Oracle hasn't received from Oracle's customers any change
>>> request/suggestions regarding the current N-TRIPLES syntax;
>>> >>> 3) As a platform vendor, Oracle does not see any significant
>>> justifications to change/mend the existing syntax;
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hence Oracle will not support any major changes to the existing
>>> N-TRIPLE format, including
>>> >>> support for UTF-8.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Zhe& Souri
>>> >>>
>>> >>> [1]http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntriples (In "RDF Test
>>> Cases: W3C Recommendation 10 February 2004")
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Steve Harris, CTO, Garlik Limited
>>> > 1-3 Halford Road, Richmond, TW10 6AW, UK
>>> > +44 20 8439 8203 http://www.garlik.com/
>>> > Registered in England and Wales 535 7233 VAT # 849 0517 11
>>> > Registered office: Thames House, Portsmouth Road, Esher, Surrey,
>>> KT10 9AD
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>> --
>> Steve Harris, CTO, Garlik Limited
>> 1-3 Halford Road, Richmond, TW10 6AW, UK
>> +44 20 8439 8203 http://www.garlik.com/
>> Registered in England and Wales 535 7233 VAT # 849 0517 11
>> Registered office: Thames House, Portsmouth Road, Esher, Surrey, KT10 9AD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian Davis, Chief Technology Officer, Talis Group Ltd.
>> http://www.talis.com/ | Registered in England and Wales as 5382297
>
>
>
Received on Friday, 19 August 2011 15:46:50 GMT

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