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Re: Oracle's stand regarding N-TRIPLES

From: Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 11:06:44 +0100
Cc: Steve Harris <steve.harris@garlik.com>, public-rdf-wg@w3.org, Jeremy Carroll <jeremy@topquadrant.com>
Message-Id: <12F48E4E-35BD-424F-8B40-21B9D9810558@deri.org>
To: Ian Davis <ian.davis@talis.com>
> But how many are Recommendations? One currently

Still two, Ian. If you like it or not, RDFa is one since 2008 :P

Cheers,
	Michael
--
Dr. Michael Hausenblas, Research Fellow
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On 19 Aug 2011, at 11:04, Ian Davis wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Steve Harris <steve.harris@garlik.com 
> > wrote:
> Internally we call it .nt8, FWIW.
>
> There's some appeal to just letting N-Triples rot and fall out of  
> use, and replacing it with something more modern. On the other hand  
> we have enough RDF syntaxes already.
>
>
> Agree. But how many are Recommendations? One currently and we are  
> chartered to increase that to 4 (Turtle, JSON, N-Triples) so we  
> wouldn't be exceeding that number.
>
>
>
> - Steve
>
> On 2011-08-19, at 10:26, Ian Davis wrote:
>
>> One option could be to leave ntriples where it is and give the utf8  
>> version a new name and put it on the REC track. U-Triples? (Maybe  
>> go further to U-Quads)
>>
>> On 19 Aug 2011 10:18, "Steve Harris" <steve.harris@garlik.com> wrote:
>> > I agree with Jeremy.
>> >
>> > For us, the lack of UTF-8 support is a serious impediment to  
>> using N-Triples as a bulk dump/restore format.
>> >
>> > We use UTF-8 internally to hold RDF literals, as every other  
>> format is natively UTF-8, so the export to N-Triples requires a lot  
>> of unnecessary and inefficient escaping.
>> >
>> > - Steve
>> >
>> > On 2011-08-18, at 23:26, Jeremy Carroll wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Zhe
>> >>
>> >> I find this a surprisingly strong position.
>> >> When ingesting N-Triples the code path to read UTF-8 and the  
>> code path to read \uXXXX escape sequences are probably equally  
>> horrible. The UTF-8 code path is the more conventional one to be  
>> following on the Web.
>> >>
>> >> It seems like a fairly small amount of extra code for a vendor  
>> to support, with negligible impact on performance. The only  
>> downside, that I can see, would be that new data will not be  
>> readable by old software, which is the normal downside with new  
>> versions of a format.
>> >>
>> >> We may differ in our judgment about how important that downside  
>> is, or I may have missed some other disadvantage that motivates  
>> Oracle's strong reaction.
>> >>
>> >> My understanding is that 2004 N-triples docs will be valid  
>> turtle docs ....
>> >>
>> >> Jeremy
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 8/18/2011 9:05 AM, Zhe Wu wrote:
>> >>> Hi,
>> >>>
>> >>> After discussing with the whole Oracle Database Semantic  
>> Technologies team, we
>> >>> have the following consensus within Oracle.
>> >>>
>> >>> 1) The existing N-TRIPLES format [1] is key to Oracle's product;
>> >>> 2) Oracle hasn't received from Oracle's customers any change  
>> request/suggestions regarding the current N-TRIPLES syntax;
>> >>> 3) As a platform vendor, Oracle does not see any significant  
>> justifications to change/mend the existing syntax;
>> >>>
>> >>> Hence Oracle will not support any major changes to the existing  
>> N-TRIPLE format, including
>> >>> support for UTF-8.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>>
>> >>> Zhe& Souri
>> >>>
>> >>> [1]http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntriples (In "RDF Test  
>> Cases: W3C Recommendation 10 February 2004")
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Steve Harris, CTO, Garlik Limited
>> > 1-3 Halford Road, Richmond, TW10 6AW, UK
>> > +44 20 8439 8203 http://www.garlik.com/
>> > Registered in England and Wales 535 7233 VAT # 849 0517 11
>> > Registered office: Thames House, Portsmouth Road, Esher, Surrey,  
>> KT10 9AD
>> >
>> >
>
> -- 
> Steve Harris, CTO, Garlik Limited
> 1-3 Halford Road, Richmond, TW10 6AW, UK
> +44 20 8439 8203  http://www.garlik.com/
> Registered in England and Wales 535 7233 VAT # 849 0517 11
> Registered office: Thames House, Portsmouth Road, Esher, Surrey,  
> KT10 9AD
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Ian Davis, Chief Technology Officer, Talis Group Ltd.
> http://www.talis.com/ | Registered in England and Wales as 5382297
Received on Friday, 19 August 2011 10:07:16 GMT

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