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Minutes of the October 22 meeting

From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:37:55 +0200
Message-ID: <4AE16B63.9020307@w3.org>
To: W3C RDFa task force <public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org>
Minutes are at:

http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html

If you are lazy to click, see below.

Ivan

-------------

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                        RDF in XHTML Task Force

22 Oct 2009

   [2]Agenda

      [2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0044.html

   Previous:[3]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html

   See also: [4]IRC log

      [4] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Manu Sporny, Shane McCarron, Ben Adida, Mark Birbeck, Ivan
          Herman

   Regrets
          Steven Pemberton

   Chair
          Manu Sporny

   Scribe
          manu

Contents

     * [5]Topics
         1. [6]Action Items
         2. [7]Next steps for RDFa
         3. [8]Discuss and approve Shane's errata text
         4. [9]Test Cases
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

Action Items

   <scribe> ACTION: Manu change test suite to use Exclusive Canonical
   XMLLiteral tests [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]
   [CONTINUES]

     [11] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action05

   Ivan: I raised some questions on mailing list -- what's the view of
   future RDFa plans.
   ... What do we want to do/publish?
   ... I'd like to know the plan.

   <scribe> ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org
   implementation re: c14n [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
   [CONTINUES]

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06

   <ShaneM> harness at
   [13]http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

     [13] http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

   <ShaneM> oh. no. not that one!

   Manu: bug with Jena, working with Andy Seaborne to figure out what's
   wrong

   [14]http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/

     [14] http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/

   Manu: That's the new test harness with XHTML1, HTML4, HTML5

   <scribe> ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [recorded
   in [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]
   [CONTINUES]

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04

   <scribe> ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors'
   guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
   [CONTINUES]

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02

Next steps for RDFa

   Mark: A couple of different things
   ... The basic question of prioritization...
   ... Javascript/DOM API, @profile, etc.
   ... What are our motivations?
   ... and where will this work be done?
   ... A bit of frustration because we don't know where we're putting
   the work.
   ... Hampering new ideas and innovation because we don't know where
   to put the work.
   ... Could we put a couple of new things into the HTML+RDFa draft
   without damaging anything?
   ... Should we try to address HTML+RDFa issues?

   Shane: Read through the thread - I think that there are some
   procedural issues...
   ... From a publication perspective, we wanted existing REC to remain
   relevant as a base spec.
   ... Possible to introduce things in HTML+RDFa level, we don't want
   XHTML+RDFa to get out of step with HTML version
   ... Don't know if we can do radical changes to CURIE processing.

   Ivan: Procedural issues - putting on my admin hat...
   ... WG charter stops at end of the year, for the time being we don't
   know what would replace it.
   ... We have discussed an IG or a WG for RDFa.
   ... There are two major stumbling blocks to address with RDFa WG..
   ... If the work this group would do is exclusively HTML... then
   there will be push-back to make this group as purely under HTML WG.
   ... Other stumbling block is that this TF is mostly Invited
   Experts... will be difficult for W3C management to accept a WG
   filled with mostly Invited Experts.
   ... We could issue edited REC of RDFa - where we try to fold in all
   the errata.
   ... I don't think that this group will have the time to do much more
   than that.

   Ben: Who should we submit this feedback to?
   ... A bit concerned about the difficulty in creating a WG for
   technology that has been clearly adopted by Google/Yahoo.
   ... How do we ensure that W3C is reflecting actual usage.

   Ivan: You should raise that point as an AC rep.
   ... We should try to see which W3C members would be interested in
   joining the RDFa WG.
   ... Yahoo! is back as a member now, so I would hope that Peter might
   want to join.
   ... Who else?
   ... I won't be at TPAC, unfortunately - Thomas Roessler will be
   there, so he will talk with Raman and Peter, maybe.
   ... If we have enough momentum, we can come up with a charter for an
   RDFa WG.

   Manu: Why don't we commit to going forward with an RDFa WG?

   Ivan: We need at least one more member to be interested.
   ... We have to be careful in the charter - we are not doing this as
   HTML - work items must be included that are not HTML-specific.
   ... The RDFa attribute set can be used in non-HTML/XML dialects as
   well.
   ... Perhaps, RDFa Core 1.1 should be a charter item.

   <scribe> ACTION: Ben, Ivan and Manu to draft an RDFa WG and move
   that initiative forward. [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]

   <scribe> ACTION: Ivan to talk with Peter Mika at ISWC2009 about RDFa
   WG. [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

   <scribe> ACTION: Ben to finish authoring RDFa WG charter. [recorded
   in [19]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

   <scribe> ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in
   RDFa WG. [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

   Ivan: We should mark up the RDFa WG charter in HTML

   Mark: quick suggestions for new members of RDFa WG - Linked Data
   community
   ... OpenLink - Virtuoso
   ... Gov2 stuff - maybe they would be interested in joining.

Discuss and approve Shane's errata text

   [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009O
   ct/0010.html

     [21]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0010.html

   Manu: Any objections to approving this erratum?

   Ivan: What does the current XHTML spec say about attribute values?

   Shane: It defers to HTM4, which is case insensitive.

   Ivan: Ah, yes.

   Manu: Any objections?

   Ivan: +1

   <ShaneM> +1

   <markbirbeck> +1

   <benadida> +1

   RESOLUTION: Include XHTML+RDFa erratum on case insensitivity for
   attribute values:
   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009O
   ct/0010.html

     [22]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0010.html

Test Cases

   [23]http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/

     [23] http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/

   Manu: TC 134
   ... This is affected by the resolution we just made... upper-case
   attribute values for things like rel="NEXT" should generate a
   triple.

   Ivan: Looks okay to me

   Manu: +1

   Shane: +1

   <benadida> +1

   Mark: We might want to change the URL to something that makes more
   sense like, [24]http://example.org/next

     [24] http://example.org/next

   <ShaneM> Looks good to me

   RESOLUTION: TC 134 approved

   Manu: Moving on to TC 140
   ... Do all of us agree that this markup shouldn't generate a triple
   ... This should be a negative test and should have documentation
   stating that it is negative.

   Mark: Should we make this use BOUND?
   ... or NOT BOUND?

   Manu: Rather not change the way we do negative tests right now,
   could change it in the future.

   <ShaneM> +1

   <ivan> +1

   Manu: Any objections to passing TC 140?

   <markbirbeck> +1

   Manu: +1

   <benadida> +1

   RESOLUTION: TC 140 approved

   Manu: TC 142

   Shane: This is a bit pathological, but that's fine...

   Mark: If you wanted to make statements about XML, this would be
   fine.
   ... Can you have an element that has <xml:test>... in RDF/XML?

   <markbirbeck> ?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>

   <markbirbeck> <rdf:RDF

   <markbirbeck>
   xmlns:rdf="[25]http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"

     [25] http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns

   <markbirbeck> xmlns:rdfs="[26]http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#"

     [26] http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema

   <markbirbeck> xmlns:xhv="[27]http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab#"

     [27] http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab

   <markbirbeck> xmlns:xml="[28]http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"

     [28] http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace

   <markbirbeck> >

   <markbirbeck> <rdf:Description
   rdf:about="[29]http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/test-cases/x
   html1/0142.xhtml">

     [29]
http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/test-cases/xhtml1/0142.xhtml

   <markbirbeck> <xml:test>Test</xml:test>

   <markbirbeck> </rdf:Description>

   <markbirbeck> </rdf:RDF>

   Ivan: Strictly speaking, this is illegal...

   Shane: I think it's reserved, not illegal.

   <scribe> ACTION: Shane to look at XML spec and see if xml: is
   illegal in RDF/XML re: TC 142 [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

   Ivan: regrets for next week
   ... I will be at ISWC - let me know if you guys have any ideas on
   who to talk with about RDFa.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Ben to finish authoring RDFa WG charter. [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
   [NEW] ACTION: Ivan to talk with Peter Mika at ISWC2009 about RDFa
   WG. [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa
   WG. [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: Shane to look at XML spec and see if xml: is illegal
   in RDF/XML re: TC 142 [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

   [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on
   implementors' guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org
   implementation re: c14n [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [recorded
   in [37]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]
   [DONE] ACTION: Manu change test suite to use Exclusive Canonical
   XMLLiteral tests [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02
     [36] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06
     [37] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04
     [38] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action05

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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-- 

Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf

Received on Friday, 23 October 2009 08:38:19 GMT

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