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meeting record: 2008-10-02 RDFa Telecon

From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 13:46:37 -0400
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20081002134352.05498080@127.0.0.1>
To: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org,public-swd-wg@w3.org

The record of today's RDF-in-XHTML Task Force telecon is now available

  http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-minutes.html

A text snapshot follows.

----

                        RDF-in-XHTML Task Force

02 Oct 2008

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Oct/0008.html

   See also: [3]IRC log, previous [4]2008-09-18

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-irc
      [4] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html

Attendees

   Present
          Jeremy Carroll, Ralph Swick, Ben Adida, Mark Birbeck

   Regrets
          Michael Hausenblas, Shane McCarron

   Chair
          Ben

   Scribe
          Ralph

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Action Review
         2. Primer
     * Summary of Action Items
     _____________________________________________________

Action Review

   ACTION: [CONTINUES] Ben to close loop with Danny. [recorded in
   [9]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action19]

      [9] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action19

   Ben: [10]wrote to Danny, don't have a response

     [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0122.html

   ACTION: [DONE] Ben to determine how to highlight RDFa at TPAC
   [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]

     [11] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action17

   Ralph: 2 opportunities

   -> [12]TP Agenda

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/TPAC/TPDay-Agenda.html

   Ralph: 2 lightning talk sessions
   ... also a "Semantic Web Demo" session

   Jeremy, Mark: we'll be at TP

   Ben: showing the Drupal work, or SearchMonkey, or Ubiquity w/RDFa
   would be good
   ... we have more showy stuff than last year

   Ralph: let Ivan know if you have a brief demo you could offer

   Jeremy: I might offer a demo

   ACTION: [DONE] Ben to log Danny's issue to tracker. [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action18]

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action18

   -> [14]issue 128; PR Comment: Default Graph

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/128

   ACTION: [CONTINUES] Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning
   [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12

   ACTION: [CONTINUES] Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13

   ACTION: [DONE] Ben to figure out *how* to do the namespace-doc GRDDL
   thing [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action18]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action18

   Ben: Ralph went ahead and did it

   ACTION: [DROPPED] Jeremy review and consider expanding the
   description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

     [18] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action02

   ACTION: [CONTINUES] Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once
   the NS URI is set up. [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03

   ACTION: [CONTINUES] Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an
   AskSlashdot piece [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04

   ACTION: [DONE] Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS.
   [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action07

   -> [22]RDFa CVS repository on dev.w3.org [30]

     [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0178.html
     [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0129.html

   ACTION: [CONTINUES] Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases
   for Ivan. [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09

   ACTION: [CONTINUES] Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded
   in [24]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

     [24] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11

   ACTION: [CONTINUES] Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa
   Wiki [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

     [25] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14

   ACTION: [CONTINUES] Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

     [26] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15

   ACTION: [DONE] Ralph to make [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt
   happen [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt
     [28] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action16

   ACTION: [DONE] Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new
   XSLT URI [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action17

Primer

   Ralph: last day to request publication is 13 October
   ... last pubs before TPAC will be 16 Oct

   Ben: we've had a couple of negative comments about the Primer
   ... I wish folk would send us pointers to their blogs
   ... do we _need_ to beef it up?

   Mark: I haven't looked at it in a while but I do remember having
   some thoughts

   -> [30]RDFa Trials and Travails ... [25]

     [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0129.html
     [25] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14

   Ben: do we _want_ to be telling people how to define vocabularies in
   this document?

   Mark: we'd talked before about the purpose of the Primer
   ... probably don't want to get into explaining custom vocabularies
   ... but if we don't then perhaps we shouldn't mention them at all
   ... we have a powerful system in RDFa but what really makes it
   useful to Joe Public is when we drop namespace prefixes and make it
   look more like microformats

   <Ralph> [I disagree on Mark's last point but won't go into it in
   this telecon]

   Mark: maybe we just accept that our audience is folk who are
   somewhat familiar with Semantic Web concepts

   Ben: I propose to submit editorial changes only to the Working Group
   next week and publish just small changes on 13 October
   ... just enough modification to the Primer to address the comments a
   little bit

   Ralph: are there enough updates to be worth pushing for 13 Oct or
   should the Primer just wait a bit longer?

   Jeremy: delay REC?

   Ralph: no, let's not delay REC

   Ben: there's other introductory material as well, e.g. in the Wiki

   Mark: but I do see the argument in favor of removing the section on
   custom vocabularies

   Ralph: there _are_ related documents out there; e.g. the Best
   Practice Recipes

   Mark: but where are the limits on what we do?

   Ralph: one of the things that distinguishes RDFa from microformats
   is that you _can_ define your own vocabulary when you decide that
   there's nothing existing that meets your needs
   ... so I wouldn't want to drop this entirely from the Primer
   ... it's not clear whether that commentor tried to follow the URIs
   ... the early Web was built on cloning pages; the same works for
   these examples

   ACTION: Ben ask Shane to produce an updated Syntax with editorial
   changes for the WG to review next week [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]

   -> "[32]xmlse:foo slightly substantive comment on CURIEs (both in
   stand alone document, and in RDFa PR)" [Jeremy 2008-09-12] Jeremy's
   editorial suggestion

     [32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Sep/0041

   <benadida> Note: A CURIE prefix value may case-insensitively begin
   in the string "xml", but then it is not permitted to be used as a
   prefix in an xmlns declaration in an XML document.

   Jeremy: we should align the RDFa Syntax document and the CURIE spec
   as to whether a prefix can start with 'xml'

   <JeremyCarroll> See the text:

   <JeremyCarroll> [[

   <JeremyCarroll> prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the
   'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES].

   <JeremyCarroll> ]]

   <markbirbeck> "When CURIES are used in an XML-based host language,
   prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax
   specified in [XMLNAMES]. Such host languages MAY also provide
   additional prefix mapping definition mechanisms.

   <markbirbeck> When CURIES are used in a non-XML host language, the
   host language MUST provide a mechanism for defining the mapping from
   the prefix to an IRI."

   Ralph: perhaps the 'xml' restriction is a Host Language restriction
   and not an RDFa or CURIE restriction
   ... so RDFa and CURIE should remain silent on this point and leave
   it to the Host Language specs to declare any further restrictions

   Mark: when I added that sentence I was thinking of prefixes such as
   '123abc'
   ... it wouldn't hurt to add to CURIE the 'xml*' restriction
   ... I think this would be a useful addition

   Ralph: I'd make it an editorial Note: comment rather than make it
   appearing to be normative about CURIEs

   Mark: I agree that the normative constraint is already covered by
   the "prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:'
   syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]" language
   ... I'm suggesting adding the comment as assistance to readers

   Jeremy: an example would be informative
   ... I'm happy with no change to RDFa Syntax

   <benadida> PROPOSE no modification to the RDFa Syntax document based
   on Jeremy's xmlse:foo comment

   RESOLUTION: no modification to the RDFa Syntax document based on
   Jeremy's xmlse:foo comment

   <JeremyCarroll> accepted as commentator

   [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Ben ask Shane to produce an updated Syntax with
   editorial changes for the WG to review next week [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]

   [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to close loop with Danny. [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action19]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy to demonstrate GRDDL with XHTML/RDFa once
   the NS URI is set up. [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Manu talk with Jamie McCarthy about an AskSlashdot
   piece [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Manu to write summary for Semantic Web Use Cases
   for Ivan. [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot. [recorded
   in [38]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning
   [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki
   [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

     [34] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action19
     [35] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action03
     [36] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action04
     [37] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
     [38] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action11
     [39] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12
     [40] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13
     [41] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action14
     [42] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action15

   [DONE] ACTION: Ben to determine how to highlight RDFa at TPAC
   [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]
   [DONE] ACTION: Ben to figure out *how* to do the namespace-doc GRDDL
   thing [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action18]
   [DONE] ACTION: Ben to log Danny's issue to tracker. [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action18]
   [DONE] ACTION: Manu to upload test harness source code to W3C CVS.
   [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
   [DONE] ACTION: Ralph to make [47]http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt
   happen [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]
   [DONE] ACTION: Shane to update XHTML ns document to point to new
   XSLT URI [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]

     [43] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action17
     [44] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action18
     [45] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-rdfa-minutes.html#action18
     [46] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action07
     [47] http://www.w3.org/2008/07/rdfa-xslt
     [48] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action16
     [49] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action17

   [DROPPED] ACTION: Jeremy review and consider expanding the
   description of TopBraid in the RDFa wiki [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

     [50] http://www.w3.org/2008/09/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action02

   [End of minutes]
     _____________________________________________________


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