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meeting record: 2008-06-26 RDFa telecon

From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:21:30 -0400
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20080626142001.0483baa8@127.0.0.1>
To: public-swd-wg@w3.org, public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org

The record [1] of today's RDF-in-XHTML Task Force telecon is
now available for review.  A text snapshot follows below.

   [1] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html

----

                            RDF-in-XHTML TF

26 Jun 2008

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2008Jun/0134.html

   See also: [3]IRC log, previous [4]2007-06-19

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-irc
      [4] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-rdfa-minutes

Attendees

   Present
          Ralph Swick, Shane McCarron, Manu Sporny, Mark Birbeck,
          Steven Pemberton

   Regrets
          Ben Adida, Michael Hausenblas

   Chair
          Manu

   Scribe
          Ralph

Contents

     * Topics
         1. Action Review
         2. Tools for RDFa authors
     * Summary of Action Items
     _____________________________________________________

Action Review

   ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform
   transferred to W3C [recorded in
   [9]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
   [CONTINUES]

      [9] http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01

   ACTION: Manu to reach out to Slashdot and attempt to get RDFa
   integrated into Slashdot. [recorded in
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [DONE]

     [10] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10

   Manu: I've been talking with Jamie McCarthy and he said he'd be more
   than happy to accept a patch.

   ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

   Shane: operator only notices RDFa in a page if one of our new
   attributes is used in the page. This is a bug.

   Manu: I believe this implementation is Elias' code
   ... may be a month or two behind the spec

   Shane: perhaps they decided that this was a clever way to infer an
   announcement

   ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki [recorded
   in [12]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
   [CONTINUES]

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12

   ACTION: [DONE] Ralph confirm whether LGPL is ok with W3C [recorded
   in [13]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action03

   Ralph: LGPL is OK for the XSLT, particularly since it's
   non-normative

Tools for RDFa authors

   Manu: we've received some criticism that we haven't provided enough
   teaching tools
   ... we could create more wiki examples

   Shane: to some extent it's about design patterns
   ... so one way to teach the technology is to show lots of best
   practices design patterns

   Shane: if you're a microformat user and want to transition to RDFa,
   what would you need to do?
   ... these are two different audiences and we may need to address
   them both
   ... might antagonize some, however

   Mark: opinions can evolve over the years
   ... we've offered an outreached hand to show how microformats can
   use parts of RDFa
   ... there's lots of momentum now [for RDFa]
   ... I'd suggest making sure we've covered all the non-microformat
   examples first
   ... e.g. ones where there is no vocabulary

   Manu: yes, there's some basic examples we don't yet have in the wiki
   ... these are things people tend to mark-up often
   ... effectively this is FOAF, vEvent; people+places+event
   ... chemistry might be interesting; depends on our goals
   ... definitely do chemistry if our goal is to help people who can't
   currently use microformats
   ... other examples are higher priority if our goal is to address
   large numbers of users

   Mark: geolocation also nice and simple

   <ShaneM> GEO location is dead easy, fwiw.

   Shane: Dan Brickley's geolocation vocabulary "just works"

   <ShaneM> There are some existing vocabularies that just work....
   let's use them in our examples

   Shane: the cool thing is that we didn't have to do anything special
   in RDFa; the RDF vocabulary just worked

   Manu: can we pick 5 or six to work on for the wiki and each pick
   one?

   <Steven> I did Vevent already

   Manu: I'll take haudio plus one other, perhaps foaf or vevent

   <Steven> Happy to expand

   Mark: I'll take foaf

   ACTION: Manu write haudio examples for wiki [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

   ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

   ACTION: Steven write vevent examples for wiki [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

   <markbirbeck> [17]first-steps-in-rdfa-creating-foaf

     [17] http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/2008/02/first-steps-in-rdfa-creating-foaf.html

   ACTION: Shane write geolocation examples for wiki [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

   Shane: "the wiki" means which wiki?

   Manu: [19]rdfa.info/wiki

     [19] http://rdfa.info/wiki

   <ShaneM> [20]http://rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Wiki

     [20] http://rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Wiki

   Manu: the short form we prefer to cite is [21]http://rdfa.info/wiki
   ... go to Tutorials; add examples there

     [21] http://rdfa.info/wiki

   Shane: I don't seem to have edit access

   Manu: I'll check the permissions

   ACTION: Manu check edit permissions on rdfa.info/wiki [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

   Shane: there is an hcard example already, but how about vcard ?

   Mark: superceded by foaf?

   Manu: some (large?) overlap but there are differences

   Mark: but foaf has deployment and vcard really doesn't

   Shane: how about RSS?

   <Steven> +1 to RSS

   <Steven> +100 to RSS in fact

   Mark: SearchMonkey has an RSS+RDFa mode

   ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

   <ShaneM> FWIW I tried to do some RSS annotation in this page:
   [24]/MarkUp/Drafts/

     [24] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/

   Manu: next can think about some javascript tools to generate the
   markup for some of these
   ... would be nice to have a unified architecture to create these
   wizards
   ... is there something already in existence we could use for this?

   Mark: yes, we have an ajax library that would be suitable

   Manu: extensible to other formats?

   Mark: yes
   ... new version no longer requires a browser plug-in
   ... might be ready within the next month

   ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

   Manu: anything we want to work with MikeK on operator?

   Shane: he's focusing right now on changing the way operators are
   invoked
   ... I'd like to see a way to map in well-known handlers for RDF
   vocabularies
   ... unfortunately they don't currently detect all RDFa

   Manu: Mike has been very open to accepting patches
   ... he'd really like someone to collaborate with him
   ... anyone have any spare cycles to work with him?

   Mark: my plan is to finish what I've been working on and document it
   ... once it's working, I will throw it open for discussion
   ... I have formats for jason, for sparql, ...
   ... I'd be happy to talk with Mike after I have this stable and
   working

   Manu: the demos you did, Mark, in your Google talk would make
   wonderful 5-minute snips
   ... to help people 'get' RDFa and why it's so useful

   Steven: Ben had some demos about adding RDFa to digg and others
   ... at least, I heard that he did

   Mark: may be a demo that I did

   <markbirbeck>
   [26]http://code.google.com/p/ubiquity-rdfa/wiki/TutorialIntroduction

     [26] http://code.google.com/p/ubiquity-rdfa/wiki/TutorialIntroduction

   Manu: my suggestion is several 5-minute screencasts

   <msporny> Manu: to create screencasts, I use xvidcap + Blender +
   audacity

   <Steven> +1

   <Steven> Tidy for µf

   Manu: what do you think about Ben's idea to create a web service
   that accepts an HTML page containing microformat data and outputting
   an RDFa formatted page?

   Ralph µfTidy :)

   Shane: we only define RDFa in the context of XHTML
   ... most µf users are using HTML, not XHTML
   ... tidy does an ok job of trying really hard to fix HTML, but it
   can break it
   ... [unfortunately] there's a perception out there that XHTML isn't
   sufficiently portable

   Mark: I give priority to getting RDFa into drupal, flickr,
   upcoming.org, etc.

   Manu: I agree with Mark. Don't want to reignite a µf vs. RDFa war
   ... let's focus on getting people to use RDFa rather than converting
   people who are using uf

   Shane: one way to get a bigger win is to approach the tool and
   environment maintainers
   ... let's help them
   ... operator is a priority for me because it enables the use of RDFa
   ... getting browsers to do something with RDF[a] will make RDF[a]
   truly useful

   Steven: travel sites can offer a link to book a hotel and earn money
   ... if someone books a flight or a hotel by following a link in a
   browser
   ... RDFa provides a model for earning money this way

   Manu: how about the MSIE folk?

   Shane: MSIE doesn't really support XHTML yet
   ... however, it would not take very long to define an HTML profile
   for RDFa

   Steven: there's no reason why browsers couldn't recognize @xmlns:
   even if they think the document is HTML
   ... it's just a token
   ... we don't really require namespace processing in the DOM
   ... the current javascript stuff is all working on the DOM already

   Shane: @lang vs. @xml:lang

   Mark: yeah, that's a tricky one
   ... MSIE actually disallows checking for @xml:lang, though it does
   allow other @xml:* attributes

   [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Manu check edit permissions on rdfa.info/wiki
   [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
   [NEW] ACTION: Manu write haudio examples for wiki [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: Manu write the perl code for Slashdot [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Mark create base wizard suitable for cloning [recorded
   in [30]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
   [NEW] ACTION: Mark write foaf examples for wiki [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
   [NEW] ACTION: Ralph think about RSS+RDFa [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
   [NEW] ACTION: Shane write geolocation examples for wiki [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
   [NEW] ACTION: Steven write vevent examples for wiki [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

   [PENDING] ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL
   transform transferred to W3C [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create 'RDFa for uF users' on RDFa Wiki
   [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01
     [36] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/13-rdfa-minutes.html#action12

   [DONE] ACTION: Manu to reach out to Slashdot and attempt to get RDFa
   integrated into Slashdot. [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
   [DONE] ACTION: Ralph confirm whether LGPL is ok with W3C [recorded
   in [38]http://www.w3.org/2008/06/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action03]

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/08-rdfa-minutes.html#action10
     [38] http://www.w3.org/2008/06/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action03

   [End of minutes]
     _____________________________________________________


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