Re: hAudio RDFa music blog demo for SWD F2F

Hi Martin,

I understand your point, and to be honest, I'm not quite sure how we
deal with it. It essentially boils down to whether you parse based on
an XML document, or whether you parse based on a DOM. Since the HTML
DOM is already very forgiving, it means that an RDFa parser that is
based on the HTML DOM will also be very forgiving, and can deal with
mark-up that wouldn't even get past first base with something like
XSLT.

Manu kindly put together this example for me, because I want to
demonstrate a key use-case for RDFa, which is where authors simply
refer to a book, film, album, etc., in their blog, and then tools like
Operator (or our own framework, which I hope to release soon) can make
use of that data. The idea is described in more detail here:

  <http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/2007/06/rdfa-hacking-at-hack-day.html>

As you can imagine, to do this kind of thing we have to be able to
deal with the messy world of the web, as it really is. :)

Regards,

Mark


On 03/10/2007, Martin McEvoy <martin@weborganics.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2007-10-03 at 15:43 -0400, Manu Sporny wrote:
> > Martin McEvoy wrote:
> > > I have a problem...
> > >
> > > It is impossible to extract rdf from your document because of the
> > > Invalid markup
> > > http://validator.w3.org/check?ss=1&verbose=1&uri=http%
> > > 3A//wiki.digitalbazaar.com/demos/scissorkick/scissorkick.html
> > >
> > > Failed validation, 587 Errors
> > >
> > > I realize that you may have NOT coded this page but wow thats a lot of
> > > errors I would say that your pages MUST validate in order to
> > > successfully extract RDF via GRDDL, The Distiller and Via Fabien's
> > > RDFa2RDFXML style-sheet
> >
> > Hi Martin :)
> >
> > Unfortunately, I don't think it would be a good idea to change the
> > Scissorkick web page...
>
> No I agree It would be a too big a job to fix (I tried got it down to 57
> errors)
>
> > it is a real-world example, including validation
> > errors. Like it or not, this is how the real-world operates and if the
> > tools that we provide can't operate on pages with validation errors,
> > there will be a big problem with adoption of those tools.
>
> Distressing isn't it
>
> >
> > The Scissorkick example works in the modified version of
> > Firefox+Operator that we provided. While I agree with you in spirit,
> > getting the rest of the world to generate valid XHTML has been an uphill
> > battle and we should not count on that happening.
>
> I think I read somewhere that most of the pages on the Internet are
> published using Front Page no wonder eh?
>
> >
> > > Also hAudio Microformat is not yet complete, do you think that hAudio
> > > RDFa may be a little premature?
> >
> > This outlines one of the benefits of the RDFa approach -
> > fast/independent/distributed creation of vocabularies. Due to the
> > painfully slow nature of the Microformats Process, the hAudio RDFa
> > specification is now more useful than the hAudio Microformat
> > specification. Hopefully we can work to bring the hAudio Microformat up
> > to date in the next couple of weeks.
>
> We will
>
> >
> > Both formats will be kept in line with one another, but the Microformats
> > community is making it difficult to keep them in sync.
>
> sorry :)
>
> > The truth is that
> > hAudio RDFa and hAudio uF are feeding off of each other - concepts
> > created in the uF community have been re-used successfully in hAudio
> > RDFa and vice-versa. Both formats are evolving because of work done in
> > other communities... yes, it might be a bit premature to use hAudio
> > RDFa, but we must start somewhere... otherwise how do we know what works
> > and what doesn't? :)
>
> Good reasoning
>
> >
> > -- manu
>
> Maybe a different use case example then (one that validates maybe) then
> maybe you can show off the real power of hAudio
>
> Thanks
>
> Martin.
> >
>
>
>


-- 
  Mark Birbeck, formsPlayer

  mark.birbeck@formsPlayer.com | +44 (0) 20 7689 9232
  http://www.formsPlayer.com | http://internet-apps.blogspot.com

  standards. innovation.

Received on Wednesday, 3 October 2007 21:15:20 UTC