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RE: Interesting experience: my foaf in RDFa

From: Hausenblas, Michael <michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at>
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:16:46 +0200
Message-ID: <768DACDC356ED04EA1F1130F97D29852012A450A@RZJC2EX.jr1.local>
To: "Ivan Herman" <ivan@w3.org>
Cc: "W3C RDFa task force" <public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org>, <eyal.oren@deri.org>, Frédérick Giasson <fred@fgiasson.com>


Ivan,

> - It works!  This is a really important point: I did not find 
> any construction in my previous foaf file that I could not 
> express somehow.

Good to hear that! I made some experiments some time ago (switching
from RDF/XML to RDFa [1]) and can by and larger conform your observations.

However, one thing _really_ bugs me: Our nice (X)HTML+RDFa documents are
ignored by 'Semantic Web search engines' as ptsw [2] or sindice [3]. 
People, move on!

> Do not crucify me: maybe we should have (as some sort of a 
> very edge case advanced feature) some sort of an import 
> mechanism. Something like
> 
> <link rel="rdfa-import" href="...."/>

As I see the benefit and the use I do support your proposal, though
the concrete solution you propose seems a bit awkward to me. 
Mark? Any thoughts?

Cheers,
	Michael

[1] http://sw-app.org/mic.xhtml
[2] http://pingthesemanticweb.com
[3] http://sindice.com

----------------------------------------------------------
 Michael Hausenblas, MSc.
 Institute of Information Systems & Information Management
 JOANNEUM RESEARCH Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
 Steyrergasse 17, A-8010 Graz, AUSTRIA
---------------------------------------------------------- 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf-request@w3.org 
> [mailto:public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of 
> Ivan Herman
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 12:39 PM
> To: W3C RDFa task force
> Subject: Interesting experience: my foaf in RDFa
> 
> I decided to experiment with RDFa with a slightly more 
> complex example.
> I used to have my foaf file[1] only in RDF/XML, ie, edit it, 
> update it, etc, in that format. I now created an XHTML/RDFa 
> version of it[2] and from now on my intention to update [2] 
> and generate [1] automatically (as an extra bonus my 
> non-informational URI[3] redirects to either the html or the 
> rdf file, depending on the HTTP request).
> 
> My foaf file is fairly complex, and it mixes a good number of 
> namespaces (I always used it as some sort of an experiment to 
> express different things). Putting it into RDFa was a bit of 
> a challenge here and there, but it was worth it. Some experiences:
> 
> - It works!  This is a really important point: I did not find 
> any construction in my previous foaf file that I could not 
> express somehow.
> And that is really important; it is a one-time evidence that 
> we do have something good here.
> 
> - It is an authoring challenge (this is not unlike 
> microformats). Of course, editing the file in a screen editor 
> is possible but makes it a bit difficult to follow and is 
> error prone. The problem with a WSWYG editor like Amaya is 
> that editing the attributes is sometimes a bit complicated. 
> What you need is an editor that makes it easy to switch 
> between WYSWYG and source view but most of them mean moving 
> to another window and thereby loosing context. My best 
> experience is with Adobe GoLive which allows (in the WYSWG 
> window) to have a pop up window on a specific element with 
> all the xml source editable. That helps a lot...
> 
> - It can be a bit convoluted sometimes. No real surprise 
> there: if you look at [2] you can see that I tried to 
> incorporate some sioc statements and turning that into RDFa 
> was a bit complicated. Well, the sioc statements themselves 
> are convoluted....
> 
> This means that some of the RDF constructs become a bit 
> unnatural in HTML, if you want to add some humanly readable 
> text to it. Which raises a practical question. What if the 
> author wants to keep some of what he/she wants to express in 
> RDF/XML and would like to 'bind' it to the RDF extracted from 
> HTML? My solution was to add a <link> statement with 
> rel="rdfs:seeAlso", but this relies on the RDF environment to 
> understand and interpret that.
> 
> Do not crucify me: maybe we should have (as some sort of a 
> very edge case advanced feature) some sort of an import 
> mechanism. Something like
> 
> <link rel="rdfa-import" href="...."/>
> 
> which means that the end result should be the merge of the 
> value of @href and the extracted RDF. I am not sure... just 
> raising the possibility here...
> 
> 
> Ivan
> 
> 
> 
> [1] http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
> [2] http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.html
> [3] http://www.ivan-herman.net/Ivan_Herman
> -- 
> 
> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
> 
Received on Friday, 24 August 2007 19:19:50 GMT

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