- From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:37:54 -0400
- To: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org
The minutes of today's RDF-in-XHTML telecon are now available in [1].
[1] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes
A text snapshot of revision 1.2 Date: 2005/07/26 19:34:24 follows:
----
SWBPD RDF-in-XHTML TF
26 Jul 2005
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-irc
Attendees
Present
Steven Pemberton, Ralph Swick, Ben Adida, Mark Birbeck, Jeremy
Carroll
Regrets
Chair
Ben
Scribe
Ralph
Previous
[3]2005-07-19
[3] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Action Review
2. [6]RDF/A Examples
3. [7]Next Meeting
* [8]Summary of Action Items
_____________________________________________________________
Action Review
[9]ActionSummary
[9] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#ActionSummary
ACTION: Ben create a way to track progress on the 3 issues of qnames,
reification, and custom attributes and elements [CONTINUES]
Ben: I expect to create a Web page
Mark: could use the Wiki for issue tracking
Ralph: or [10]w3c wiki
[10] http://esw.w3.org/topic/FrontPage
ACTION: Ben to put together the "ACID" test for XHTML2 RDF/A
[CONTINUES]
Ben: doing a Creative Commons example
Steven: how about an RSS example?
ACTION: danbri record an issue re # vs / w.r.t. RDF Schema [DONE]
[recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
[11] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action03
-> [12]Re: the / vs # issue [19]
[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jul/0018.html
[19] http://www.xforms-wiki.com/bin/view/Main/LanguageRdfA
ACTION: jjc to circulate www conf paper [DONE]
Jeremy: it was a [13]presentation, not a paper.
[13] http://www.cs.vu.nl/~guus/public/carroll-rdf-html.pdf
see also: [14]post-meeting comments]
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jul/0032.html
Ralph: I believe this was the presentation that other WG members
thought could be the basis for a document
ACTION: Mark to create an rdf/a wiki [DONE]
-> [15]RDF/A examples wiki
[15] http://www.xforms-wiki.com/bin/view/Main/LanguageRdfA
ACTION: Mark to check edge cases of inheritance in RDF/A [CONTINUES]
ACTION: take a serious look at Mark's bnode proposal summary
[16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun
/0010.html
[16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun/0010.html
Mark: I think the Joe Lambda example will highlight some of the bnode
issues
... other examples I've been able to restructure so they don't really
need named bnodes
ACTION: Ben send mail to www-html-editors to assign an issue for the
GRDDL namespace document behind the profile [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
[CONTINUES]
[17] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action03
ACTION: Ben to notify working group via a status report of upcoming WD
of Note [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
[CONTINUES]
[18] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action02
RDF/A Examples
<benadida> [19]http://www.xforms-wiki.com/bin/view/Main/LanguageRdfA
[19] http://www.xforms-wiki.com/bin/view/Main/LanguageRdfA
Mark: the examples change almost by the hour
... initially I used a verbose XHTML2 style
... the rules now listed are the ones that are feeling firm to me
... we may have to treat meta and link as completely special; this is
different from previous specifications
... previously meta was something like span
... now it seems only meta should attach properties to the parent
... my agenda is to be able to carry metadata but also use the data
in-line
... e.g. a browser that pops-up metadata when you mouse-over a link
... in the ordinary HTML sense, meta was a way to attach metadata to a
document. In this new framework meta is a way to attach metadata to
any node
... section id='person' highlights the inheritance questions
<Steven>
[20]http://www.xforms-wiki.com/bin/view/Main/LanguageRdfAExampleFoaF
[20] http://www.xforms-wiki.com/bin/view/Main/LanguageRdfAExampleFoaF
Mark: in some cases <h1 property='x'> should apply to the h1 but in
other cases the property should be applied to the parent
... at the moment I don't see an easy way to specify which one is
intended
<Zakim> jjc, you wanted to ask about whether this loses design goal of
rdf/a being reusable and to ask about #person as RDF or HTML mimetype
and to say how the first rdf/a draft addressed
Jeremy: in the October RDF/A draft this issue of deciding the subject
was addressed
... [the October words were] not unintuitive from an RDF/XML
perspective
... a carefully selected subset of the October rules could make sense
... the subject rule by itself isn't too much
Mark: feel free to add comments to the wiki
Jeremy: the example seems to want to read #person to be an RDF mime
type
... rather than as a fragid of an HTML document
... I'm comfortable with some ambiguity here
... there's a section in RDF Concepts that discusses frag ids and RDF
Mark: I have generally thought they were two different worlds
... one could say that only when you view this document with "RDF
glasses" do you see the RDF nodes
ACTION: jjc to review rdf concepts and fragments [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action10]
[21] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action10
Ben: in the bottom example, you want the rdf:type property to apply to
<section id="person">, right?
... even though there is no about attribute
Mark: yes
Ben: so the meta applies to the named node rather than to the
document, even though there is no about attribute
Mark: yes, the meta applies to the section because the section has an
id
... I would prefer that meta always applies to the parent
... in this example I'm only going halfway; meta applies to section
because of the id
<Zakim> Steven, you wanted to ask about @xhtml2:role (after this
discussion is over)
Steven: the danger of the id solution is that id plays so many roles
that you could accidentally insert an id (to be a link target) and
suddenly change your RDF
... in the rdf:type example, I would have written <section
role="foaf:Person">
... I see Mark doesn't use role much, whereas I use it a lot
... why this difference in approach?
... maybe role is being though of differently by each of us and we
should write down what role means
Mark: I think this would be a fantastic shorthand but we haven't
defined it
... the types for roles could be defined in the RDF schema (e.g. using
OWL)
... this sort of abbreviation would be nice for the HTML community
Jeremy: with RDF Schema it is very easy to say xhtml:role and rdf:type
have the same property extension; i.e. are effectively equivalent
... this is not allowed in OWL-lite or OWL-DL
... in OWL-full you can say that role=Person is equivalent to
foaf:Person without making them synonyms
Mark: I was thinking that, for example, anything with role=x would
also have rdf:type=x
Jeremy: yes, you can say this in OWL-Full
... but probably the RDF Schema version of this is good enough
Mark: this would be very nice for super browsers; e.g. role=toolbar
pulls in a lot of properties of toolbars
Jeremy: HP would likely be pleased to say that role is a subProperty
of type
<jjc> Proposed triple: xhtml:role rdfs:subPropertyOf rdf:type .
Mark: might I put role=Person on the root element, as I'm saying the
whole thing is the Person
... regarding Steven's id question, I agree with the concern and
that's why I'm leaning toward making link and meta always apply to the
parent regardless of presence of id attribute
... the presence of id='person' simply allows you to refer to that
anonymous node
... the only role of id would be to name things; it doesn't change the
inheritance rules
... but this affects my h1 example
Ben: I will add a Creative Commons example to the Wiki
Steven: I am working on the W3C Talks example, then will look at RSS
example
Mark: note the title property="dc:title" -- it may be useful to think
of some default settings
... e.g. the XHTML2 schema could give this property as a default
attribute for title
Ralph: this would require GRDDL to be more Schema-aware
... perhaps that's a good thing
Next Meeting
next meeting: 2 August
[adjourned]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: jjc to review rdf concepts and fragments [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action10]
ACTION: Ben create a way to track progress on the 3 issues of qnames,
reification, and custom attributes and elements [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action01]
ACTION: Ben send mail to www-html-editors to assign an issue for the
GRDDL namespace document behind the profile [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
ACTION: Ben to notify working group via a status report of upcoming WD
of Note [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
ACTION: Ben to put together the "ACID" test for XHTML2 RDF/A [recorded
in [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
ACTION: Mark to check edge cases of inheritance in RDF/A [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action06]
ACTION: take a serious look at Mark's bnode proposal summary
[28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun
/0010.html [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action07]
[DONE] ACTION: danbri record an issue re # vs / w.r.t. RDF Schema
[recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
[DONE] ACTION: jjc to circulate www conf paper [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action04]
[DONE] ACTION: Mark to create an rdf/a wiki [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action05]
[End of minutes]
[22] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action10
[23] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action01
[24] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action03
[25] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action02
[26] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action02
[27] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action06
[28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun/0010.html
[29] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action07
[30] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action03
[31] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action04
[32] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action05
$Log: 26-swbp-minutes.html,v $
Revision 1.2 2005/07/26 19:34:24 swick
Cleanup for first publication
_____________________________________________________________
$Revision: 1.2 $ $Date: 2005/07/26 19:34:24 $
Received on Tuesday, 26 July 2005 19:38:23 UTC