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meeting record: 2005-08-02 RDF-XHTML TF telecon

From: Ralph R. Swick <swick@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 14:15:09 -0400
Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050803141145.02f1e7e0@127.0.0.1>
To: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org

The record [1] of yesterday's RDF-in-XHTML Task Force telecon is ready
for review.

   [1] http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-minutes

A text snapshot of $Revision: 1.2 $ of $Date: 2005/08/03 18:11:10 $ follows.

----

                               SWBPD RDFXHTML TF

2 Aug 2005

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Ralph Swick, Ben Adida, Steven Pemberton, Dan Brickley

   Regrets
          Mark Birbeck

   Chair
          Ben

   Scribe
          Ralph

   Previous
          [3]2005-07-26

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes

Contents

     * Topics
         1. RDF Role
         2. Action Review
         3. Progress report on HTML link types
         4. RDF Role attribute
     * Summary of Action Items

     ____________________________________________________________

Action Review

   Ben: most of my actions CONTINUE
   ... worried about finding an interim chair for next 6 weeks

   Ralph: yeah, no progress on finding a candidate

   DanBri: I'm willing to chair a few telecons but not the entire 6 weeks

   Ralph: likewise

   DanBri: pointer to Editor's Draft style?

   Ralph: see "[10]Style for Group-internal Drafts" under "[11]The
   Recommendation Track" in [12]Art of Consensus

     [10] http://www.w3.org/2005/03/28-editor-style.html
     [11] http://www.w3.org/Guide/Overview.html#Deliverables
     [12] http://www.w3.org/Guide/Overview.html

   ACTION: Ben create a way to track progress on the 3 issues of qnames,
   reification, and custom attributes and elements [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action01]
   [CONTINUES]

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action01

   ACTION: Ben send mail to www-html-editors to assign an issue for the
   GRDDL namespace document behind the profile [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
   [CONTINUES]

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action03

   ACTION: Ben to notify working group via a status report of upcoming WD
   of Note [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
   [CONTINUES]

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action02

   ACTION: Ben to put together the "ACID" test for XHTML2 RDF/A [recorded
   in [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
   [CONTINUES]

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action02

   ACTION: Mark to check edge cases of inheritance in RDF/A [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action06]
   [CONTINUES]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action06

   ACTION: jjc to review rdf concepts and fragments [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action10]
   [CONTINUES]

     [18] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action10

   ACTION: All take a serious look at Mark's bnode proposal summary
   [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun
   /0010.html [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action07]
   [CONTINUES]

     [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun/0010.html
     [20] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action07

   Ralph: HTML2 Last Call status?

   Steven: churning through issues; schema is getting close
   ... we now have a complete RelaxNG version and it's being converted to
   XML Schema
   ... f2f scheduled for early September; that's the most likely moment
   to decide to go to Last Call

   DanBri: have the link type definitions changed much since the Feb
   [editor's] draft and the latest public WD?

   Steven: there is a good [21]diff-marked version
   ... copyright is new
   ... icon and profile are also new
   ... in the diff, yellow is added text, green is changed text
   ... orange is deleted text (but I thought that this version did not
   show deleted text)

     [21] http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/xhtml2-diff.html

Progress report on HTML link types

   <DanBri> [22]draft HTML link types in RDF

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2005/05/hrel/

   <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask steven if HTML link type text
   changed from feb to may and to check that preferred xhtml2 ns is
   exactly "[23]http://www.w3.org/2002/06/xhtml2/"

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2002/06/xhtml2/

   DanBri: my task was to make an RDF representation of the HTML link
   types and draft a note

   <Steven_> Orange colour means that the statement is a 'must'

   DanBri: lots of open issues at the end of this draft
   ... current text is largely copied from the XML document
   ... would like to hear from implementors on some of the details
   ... some things missing; e.g. bookmark titles
   ... one open issue: what is the namespace URI?
   ... have been assuming that we'd use the XHTML2 namespace
   ... so what [char] is at the end of the namespace URI?

   Steven: we could do a redirect if necessary -- what's the reason for
   requiring it?

   DanBri: TAG resolution on # vs. / and information resources [see
   httpRange-14]

   Steven: we put the / at the end to help with the RDF stuff; we thought
   this gave us the most flexibility

   DanBri: I tried to find an expansion for XHTML to use with the acronym
   tag

   Steven: use Extensible Hypertext Markup Language as expanstion of
   XHTML

   <Zakim> benadida, you wanted to ask about using RDF/A to define the
   RDFS

   Ben: does the httpRange-14 issue resolution mean that we can't have an
   XHTML2 document containing RDF/A that is an RDF Schema for the rel
   types?

   Ben: it would be nice from a consistency viewpoint if we could write
   the RDF schema in RDF/A

   <danbri> +1 on it being nice to have an RDF/A version

   <danbri> (I'd like an application/rdf+xml too)

   DanBri: I think this should be possible with a combination of
   redirects and content negotiation

   Ralph: in a private conversation with TimBL yesterday he confirmed
   that 303 and possibly 308 were the only acceptable redirection
   responses for the httpRange-14 resolution

   DanBri: will this make it on the TAG agenda?

   Ralph: not likely unless we raise it, possibly via a use case

   DanBri: I though I'd done that with a [24]purl.org example
   ... I'd like to propose [an updated version of] [25]HTML link types in
   RDF to the SWBPD WG to be a Working Draft
   ... I'd like to link from this document directly to the XHTML document

     [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2005Jul/0012.html
     [25] http://www.w3.org/2005/05/hrel/

   <danbri> looking at [26]http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-infoset-rdfs ... tiny
   little doc

     [26] http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-infoset-rdfs

   DanBri: should feedback go to just the TF mailing list, or should this
   be considered a joint WG task with feedback to both lists?

   Steven: there is no objection to the SWBPD WG owning this
   ... the HTML WG has enough on its hands and are happy to just
   coordinate
   ... fine with me to direct feedback just to the TF mailing list

   DanBri: ok to point into the XHTML2 spec for the definitions?

   [no objections]

   <danbri> <rdf:Property rdf:about"#start">

   <danbri> <rdfs:label>start</rdfs:label>

   <danbri> <rdfs:comment>Refers to the first resource in a collection of
   resources. A typical use case might be a collection of chapters in a
   book.</rdfs:comment>

   <danbri> <rdfs:range rdf:resource"#Document"/>

   <danbri> <rdfs:domain rdf:resource"#Document"/>

   <danbri> <rdf:type
   rdf:resource"[27]http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#ObjectProperty"/>

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#ObjectProperty

   <danbri> </rdf:Property>

   DanBri: RDF/OWL definitions in-line or in appendix?

   Steven: my preference has been to put all that in appendices

   Ralph: I'd like to see it inline somewhere [appendix is fine]

   DanBri: note my addition of a Class of documents

   Steven: when we say 'documents' we actually mean anything addressable
   by a URI -- i.e. a resource

   DanBri: 'resource' is an overloaded term
   ... can we agree to use the TAG's definition of 'information
   resource'?

   Steven: fine by me

   DanBri: on the ATOM mailing list there has been discussion of new link
   types, identified by URI\
   ... I'd like to cite that from this document

   <danbri> see atom-syntax

   DanBri: there's a built-in set of link types in ATOM
   ... they've decided to use the IETF process to register new link types
   ... shortnames acceptable if URI has been registered with IETF,
   otherwise a full URI is acceptable

   DanBri: ok for me to announce the link types document to the WG when
   I'm ready?

   Ben: sure

RDF Role attribute

   Steven: as far as I'm concerned, it's resolved
   ... my proposal was to make role a synonym for rdf:type
   ... Jeremy said he'd be happier if it were a subtype [subProperty] of
   rdf:type

   Ben: the role attribute can be applied to any element?

   Steven: yes, it was originally introduced for accessibility
   ... the accessibility community began defining some roles they needed
   ... it dawned on the HTML WG that role was more generally useful

   <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to suggest it be considered _syntax_ for
   rdf:type, not a subPropertyOf (which takes us out of OWL DL/Lite for
   all apps)

   DanBri: we should try to avoid shutting out OWL-DL from using XHTML2

   Ben: how does <div role='whatever'> apply to the element? Does this
   effectively become a bnode?

   Steven: it may well be

   ACTION: Ben add role attribute to the [HTML] issues list [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-minutes.html#action08]

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-minutes.html#action08

   Ben: should this be part of the RDF Schema that DanBri is working on?

   DanBri: if we're only using rdf:type it's pure syntax and doesn't
   affect the schema
   ... is there anything else in the syntax that shows up as RDF
   Properties or Classes?

   Steven: don't think so

Summary of Action Items

   ACTION: All take a serious look at Mark's bnode proposal summary
   [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun
   /0010.html [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action07]
   ACTION: Ben create a way to track progress on the 3 issues of qnames,
   reification, and custom attributes and elements [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action01]
   ACTION: Ben send mail to www-html-editors to assign an issue for the
   GRDDL namespace document behind the profile [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
   ACTION: Ben to notify working group via a status report of upcoming WD
   of Note [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
   ACTION: Ben to put together the "ACID" test for XHTML2 RDF/A [recorded
   in [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
   ACTION: jjc to review rdf concepts and fragments [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action10]
   ACTION: Mark to check edge cases of inheritance in RDF/A [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: Ben add role attribute to the [HTML] issues list
   [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-minutes.html#action08]
   [End of minutes]
$Log: 02-swbp-minutes.html,v $
Revision 1.2  2005/08/03 18:11:10  swick
Cleanup for first publishing

     [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun/0010.html
     [30] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action07
     [31] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action01
     [32] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action03
     [33] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action02
     [34] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action02
     [35] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action10
     [36] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action06
     [37] http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-minutes.html#action08

     ____________________________________________________________


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