W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org > May 2004

Re: Stopped struggling, now merely puzzled

From: Danny Ayers <danny666@virgilio.it>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 00:12:44 +0200
Message-ID: <40B2735C.9030301@virgilio.it>
To: Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@x-port.net>
Cc: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org

Mark Birbeck wrote:

>Hi Danny,
>First, if you were struggling, I apologise if I made things obtuse! But
>thanks also for persevering with it.
My problem for not reading closer, the doc is clear. Thanks for this 
response, and for providing interesting reading material!

>You are right that in terms of something like a triple store, there is
>little to choose between your syntax and mine. However, the advantage of
>leaving the metadata near the text that it relates to, is that a smart
>browser could do something clever with it, without having to have a built in
>triple store.
That is an advantage for sure, it just seems like for external 
processing it's leaving some of the available information (the 
referenced text) behind.

>For example, in this illustration moving the mouse over the words "Prime
>Minister" could show a picture of Winston Churchill, or a link to some text
>about him. The types of things I was thinking of would be that using this
>URI and some knowledge of the document user, you could show one set of text
>or links to a school kid, another lot of information to a post-graduate, and
>a further set to a journalist.
>In short, I think the 'location' of the information is more useful for
>browser-type software than to triple stores. In addition, I think authors
>are more likely to add it if they can just put it 'in position'.
Right, I see what you mean, there should be nice UI things available there.

Just as a side thought, re. your emphasis on location - as well as 
providing the literal text in triples, might it not be possible to 
include in the extracted RDF the positional info? The position could be 
passed on as XPointers (or at least XPaths) in the same way Annotea uses 

I guess there can be different levels of extraction from the same 
document, with just the <title> at one end and total fine-grained 
XPointer to every <span>'ed quote at the other.

>As I said though, I like the idea of preserving the position of the metadata
>since it can be used by 'smart browsers' [a].
It hadn't occurred to me in that way, what could be done in (browser) 
context, but I've a feeling there's low-hanging fruit nearby.

Heh, it's funny, I was thinking in terms of what's not extracted 
(p:WinstonChurchill rdfs:label "Prime Minister") and your response is 
looking at what's not left in by separating the original triple 
(position of <> xhtml2:reference p:WinstonChurchill). I'm not sure which 
of us is the optimist...

>[a] I won't say 'semantic web browsers' because that term is being used
>already to describe monolithic Java applications that understand RDF! I'm
>talking about clever XML browsers that can augment documents as the user
>surfs, using information that comes from a combination of the user's local
>data, their intranet or company data, perhaps some paid for or university
>data, and all topped off with a smattering of publicly available data.
Yep, cool potential.


PS. wget isn't a bad Semantic Web browser


Received on Monday, 24 May 2004 18:13:37 UTC

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