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Meeting record: Data Access Working Group telecon 1 May 2007

From: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 07:08:44 -0700
To: public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
Message-ID: <20070503140844.GA7354@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes


   [1]W3C 

                            RDF Data Access Weekly

1 May 2007

   [2]Agenda

   See also: [3]IRC log

Attendees

   Present
          AndyS, jeen, LeeF, Chimezie_Ogbuji, EricP, Souri, SimonR

   Regrets
   Chair
          LeeF

   Scribe
          jeen

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]convene
         2. [6]action items
         3. [7]leading digits in prefixed names
         4. [8]non-URI characters in IRIs
         5. [9]Last Call comments status / CR status
         6. [10]ordered, distinct, and reduced attributes in SPARQL XML
            Results Format
     * [11]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________________



   <AndyS> Ref: [12]http://rfc.net/rfc3987.html#s3.

   <LeeF> Scribe: jeen

   <AndyS> better: [13]http://rfc.net/rfc3987.html#s3.1. just before 3.2

   <LeeF> ericP, you coming along?

convene

   <LeeF> minutes from 24 Apr ->
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-dawg-minutes.html

   <LeeF> minutes approved, seconded by jeen

   <AndyS> Off topic: Joost launch: RDF in action!
   [15]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6612199.stm

   <LeeF> next meeting, 8 May, scribe @@

action items

   <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to respond to Jeremy Carroll's comments re:
   langMatches [DONE] [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action01]

   <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to respond
   [17]http://www.w3.org/mid/4617D68D.4010608@hp.com [DONE] [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action02]

   <LeeF> ACTION: EricP to run the yacker tool over and annotate the
   existing tests [CONTINUES] [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action03]

   <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to get in touch with SteveH re: setting up an
   environment to generate an Overview page for tests in data-r2 a la
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/ [CONTINUES] [recorded
   in [21]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action04]

   <LeeF> ACTION: ericP, jeen, or LeeF to update
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/README with info on
   possible results format and on changes to manifest and test
   vocabularies [CONTINUES] [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action05]

   <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to write a test showing that langMatches doens't
   do extended matching [CONTINUES] [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action06]

   <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF or EliasT to reply to Bjoern regarding (not)
   POSTing application/sparql-query documents [CONTINUES] [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action07]

   <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF or EliasT to reply to Bjoern regarding (not)
   POSTing application/sparql-query documents [CONTINUES[ [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action08]

   <LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to mark the 4 regex tests approved [CONTINUES]
   [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action09]

leading digits in prefixed names

   LeeF: discussed this last week, consensus seems no technical
   objections against allowing

   <SimonR> I do have a technical reason against it.

   LeeF: I was going to check whether this would be substantive enough to
   need a new LC

   SimonR: I did have a technical objection, you can put it in a
   construct and thus produce something which is not a legal XML QName in
   your output graph

   <chimezie> i don't see how expanding 'qname' lexical form will be
   problematic for serializing RDF/XML

   <chimezie> via CONSTRUCT

   EricP: if the data is there in the first place, it can already occur
   in the output of a query, so we are not introducing a _new_ problem.

   <AndyS> Example: x:0123 becomes <[28]http://example/ns/0123> as a
   property which is not qname-able in RDF/XML.

   <chimezie> ahh, thx

   SimonR: I'd be inclined not to change the spec and be conservative.
   but the world won't fall if we do allow this.

   <AndyS> Can do it in other ways - this makes it a bit easier to do.

   LeeF: EricP talked to Ralph (and Tim). according to him it is a
   substantive change.
   ... but we could mark it as 'at risk', reserving the right to remove
   in PR if we want.

   <LeeF> AndyS: neutral

   <LeeF> SimonR: do nothing

   <LeeF> jeen: neutral

   <LeeF> chimezie: add it at-risk

   <LeeF> ericP: add it at-risk

   <LeeF> Souri: add it at-risk

   SimonR: can we explain in the spec why it is at risk?

   LeeF: we have no obligation to do that, at least.

   <LeeF> PROPOSED: To accept leading digits in the local part of a
   prefixed name and mark this as a feature at-risk in the sepcification

   seconded by AndyS

   <LeeF> so resolved.

   RESOLVED, no abstentions or objections

   <SimonR> I'm willing to write some text explaining the issues around
   leading digis.

   <LeeF> ACTION: SimonR to write text explaining the leading digits
   at-risk feature [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action10]

   <LeeF> ACTION: AndyS to update the grammar for leading digits
   [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action11]

   <LeeF> ACTION: chimezie to write up a test case showing leading digits
   in local part of prefixed names [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action12]

non-URI characters in IRIs

   <LeeF> issue inspired by comments in
   [32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2007A
   pr/0007.html

   <SimonR> Do we have a way in the test suite to express an "at risk"
   feature? I'm presuming at the moment our tests are supposed to either
   succeed or fail. Do we have any marked to only work in the case of a
   optional feature? (Exntailment regimes, user-defined functions, etc?)

   <AndyS> 

   <chimezie> i *think* the current test suite uses 'vanilla' RDF test
   vocabulary, so I don't think so (currently)

   <jeen> simon, i don't think we do

   <SimonR> Okay, so there might be some test suite framework extension
   required, as well as writing the tests themselves.

   <chimezie> IRI specification includes certain characters which would
   cause conflicts in our grammar (< for instance)

   AndyS: in favor of maximizing interoperability by keeping out that
   excluded-char list

   <AndyS> Example: <[33]http://example/a{b}c> seems to be a legal IRI
   but not a URI.

   <SimonR> Is RDF core officially using IRIs yet? (Probably a silly
   question, but I might as well ask.)

   LeeF: my inclinination would be to stick to as close as what we have
   right now, and keep the exclusion list

   <AndyS> RDF core is not using IRIs because it predates RFC 3987

   Souri: also in favor of sticking with as-is

   <chimezie> if there is no technical pushback is seems prudent to go in
   teh IRI direction

   <chimezie> as thit seems to be the general consensus direction

   jeen: not sure about changing this without taking a good look at
   consequences for current parsers first.

   <AndyS> Chimezie - just an observation - the arg could be to go for
   the most conservative as well. This is tricky.

   <chimezie> yes, the uncertainty for me is mainly what hiccups (if any)
   it introduces

   <SimonR> You know, if we delimited our prefixed named with <> and left
   IRIs delimited by whitespace, we might dodge this. Probably to
   confusing to consider, but <> would be no issue for pseudo-XML
   characters.

   <SimonR> to/too

   <AndyS> Jeen - SeRQL uses {} for delims doesn't it?

   <Jeen> Andy - delims around subject and object (i.e. graph nodes as
   opposed to edges) . uris are delimited with <> same as in SPARQL

   <AndyS> Jeen - thanks

   <Souri> What are the characters? <,>,{,}, space, ...

   <AndyS> Souri: "<", ">", '"', space, "{", "}", "|", "\", "^", and "`"

   <AndyS> (from RFC 3987 near end sec 3.1)

   <Souri> Thanks Andy.

Last Call comments status / CR status

   <LeeF> [34]somewhat accurate comment report

   <LeeF> [35]#2 has been fixed, #3 is a question, #1 is mainly a
   question

   LeeF: we have pretty much addressed all the LC comments (only have to
   send one more reply)
   ... still hoping to move to CR next week

   LeeF: I will go through old objections and summarize their status

ordered, distinct, and reduced attributes in SPARQL XML Results Format

   <LeeF> [36]attributes in results format

   LeeF: question on whether we need additional reduced attribute in XML
   format triggered discussion on under-specification on meaning of
   distinct attribute
   ... so the broader question is whether we need a reduced keyword and
   whether we need to keep the distinct and ordered keywords in the
   result format?

   <ericP> my vote: wipe them all out

   <LeeF> Is anyone in favor of keeping the distinct= and ordered=
   attributes?

   <Souri> I too favor removing them

   Chimezie: I'm in favor of removing as well

   LeeF: we seem to have consensus on this

   <LeeF> PROPOSED: To remove the ordered= and distinct= attributes from
   the SPARQL Query Results XML Format

   second by jeen and andy

   RESOLVED, no abstentions or objections

   <LeeF> ACTION: jeen to remove ordered and distinct attributes from the
   query results xml format editors' draft [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action13]

   ADJOURNED

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: AndyS to update the grammar for leading digits [recorded
   in [38]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action11]
   [NEW] ACTION: chimezie to write up a test case showing leading digits
   in local part of prefixed names [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action12]
   [NEW] ACTION: jeen to remove ordered and distinct attributes from the
   query results xml format editors' draft [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action13]
   [NEW] ACTION: LeeF or EliasT to reply to Bjoern regarding (not)
   POSTing application/sparql-query documents [CONTINUES[ [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: SimonR to write text explaining the leading digits
   at-risk feature [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action10]

   [PENDING] ACTION: ericP to get in touch with SteveH re: setting up an
   environment to generate an Overview page for tests in data-r2 a la
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/ [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action04]
   [PENDING] ACTION: EricP to run the yacker tool over and annotate the
   existing tests [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: ericP to write a test showing that langMatches
   doens't do extended matching [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action06]
   [PENDING] ACTION: ericP, jeen, or LeeF to update
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/README with info on
   possible results format and on changes to manifest and test
   vocabularies [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action05]
   [PENDING] ACTION: LeeF or EliasT to reply to Bjoern regarding (not)
   POSTing application/sparql-query documents [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action07]
   [PENDING] ACTION: LeeF to mark the 4 regex tests approved [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action09]

   [DONE] ACTION: ericP to respond
   [51]http://www.w3.org/mid/4617D68D.4010608@hp.com [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action02]
   [DONE] ACTION: ericP to respond to Jeremy Carroll's comments re:
   langMatches [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2007/05/01-dawg-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [54]scribe.perl version 1.128
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References

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  32. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2007Apr/0007.html
  33. http://example/a
  34. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report.html
  35. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2007Apr/0027.html
  36. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2007AprJun/0031.html
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-- 
-eric

office: +1.617.258.5741 NE43-344, MIT, Cambridge, MA 02144 USA
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