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minutes RDF Data Access 13 June for review

From: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:55:49 +0200
To: public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
Message-ID: <20060616085549.GA25588@w3.org>

http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes

                         RDF Data Access Working Group

13 Jun 2006

   See also: [2]IRC log

Attendees

   Present
   Regrets
          Libby, Souri, SteveH, JeenB, DanC

   Chair
          KendallC

   Scribes
          FredZ, ericP, EliasT

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Convene, take roll, recruit scribe, next meeting
         2. [5]New meeting time?
         3. [6]action items
         4. [7]namespace of builtin functions
         5. [8]ericp to discuss 3-interpretation email
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________________

   <kendallclark> Scribe: FredZ

   <kendallclark>
   [10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/014
   0.html

Convene, take roll, recruit scribe, next meeting

   <AndyS> The minutes seem to have carried over DONE actions

   PROPOSED: to accept [11]Minutes from last meeting with [12]corrections
   as a true record of the last meeting

   APPROVED

   <AndyS> At risk for next time: AndyS (need to be elsewhere from
   15:00-15:30 local/UTC+1)

New meeting time?

action items

   next meeting: probably 14:30Z (10:30 eastern US), scribe:
   Elias-scribe-for-life-T

   <kendallclark> PROPOSED: to change the DAWG telecon time to 14:30 UTC,
   starting 20 June and from thence on

   <kendallclark> RESOLVED

   <kendallclark> ACTION: [CLOSED] AndyS to resend a proposal ([13]sent)
   to solve equality testing over email [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action01]

   ACTION: AndyS to resend a proposal to solve equality testing over
   email, ericP and patH to give eyes. [CONTINUES] [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action02]

   ACTION: EliasT to submit mime-type registration for json-results.
   [CONTINUED] [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action03]

   ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < >
   [CONTINUED] [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action04]

   ACTION: EricP to send mail about 3-part interpretation of optionals
   [DONE] [18]3 interpretations for OPTIONALs (and UNIONS)

   ACTION: KendallC to tell Martin Soto that we're considering his
   comments [CONTINUED] [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action06]

   ACTION: PatH to kibbitz with EricP about 3-part interpretation of
   optionals [WITHDRAWN] [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action07]

   ACTION: AndyS: to draft of open-world = tests (unknown datatypes)
   [DONE] [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action08]

   ACTION: LeeF to fix mimetype in json-reults [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action09]

namespace of builtin functions

   <kendallclark>
   [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/009
   4.html

   <AndyS> [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions/

   -> [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions/ XPath namespace
   document

   <AndyS> Test case: op:add =>
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions#add ??

   <kendallclark> Presumably EricP's fixes include: isIRIis sparql:isIRI

   <kendallclark> isURI sparqlisURI

   <kendallclark> since they are typo'd

   <LeeF> could someone scratch out the current proposal, please?

   <kendallclark> would be nice for the record too

   note [27]proposal

ericp to discuss 3-interpretation email

   -> [28]http://www.w3.org/mid/20060612203520.GA16448@w3.org 3
   interpretations of OPTIONALs

   <EliasT> [29]http://www.w3.org/mid/20060612203520.GA16448@w3.org

   <AndyS> It is also
   [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/015
   8

   <LeeF> I think there's an implicit "else" in there.

   ericP: if variable is introduced in one OPTIONAL and then appears in a
   second OPTIONAL, then bindings from one do not constrain the other,
   they only enhance it

   <EliasT> i.e. + :a cc:license "steal this book" .

   ericP: this doesn't happen "normally" because OPTIONAL is a binary
   operator and text near OPTIONAL specifies [left-associativity] for
   OPTIPONALs without other triples in between

   ericP: but adding more triples ends up with the factorial scenario

   FredZ: One of the points from the Chile paper is that SPARQL doesn't
   explicitly consider precedence in main body of text - precedence is
   implicit in the grammar.

   FredZ: <something else about disconnect between semantics and
   presentation of semantics in document>

   ericP: think we should first decide how this SHOULD work before
   discussing how to present how it works

   <AndyS> "Better spec" is bound by the length of the charter

   <kendallclark> Yes. But we have to answer and satisfy reasonable,
   novel claims about the formal semantics of our language. That seems
   unavoidable.

   <AndyS> defn of LEXICAL assumes hard nulls ?

   <kendallclark> My org -- not speaking here as chair -- strongly wants
   a compositional semantics for SPARQL. Lexical order sensitivity is a
   bad thing in many ways, IMO.

   <AndyS> FredZ: reorder of peers should not matter

   <AndyS> FredZ: nesting of structures may indicate order

   <kendallclark> And we'd really like to be able to optimize RDF
   queries.

   ericP: does the spec need to deal with commutativity and associativity
   of operators and the equivalences that fall out therefrom?

   FredZ: SQL spec does not

   ericP: Would like to define eveyrthing in term of lexical order and
   let lexical indepdence fall out in some cases from logical properties
   of operators (but the spec says nothing about these clevernesses)

   <EliasT> AndyS: Our users today would like queries such as: given a
   user, give me a name, else, give me an email, else, give me a nick.
   ie. {A OPT B OPT C OPT D} which depends on ordering.

   <kendallclark> Does lexical ordering push us further away from
   compositional semantics?

   <patH> Probably yes, Kendall.

   <kendallclark> *gah*

   <AndyS> If it does, it is only if a variable is mentioned multiple
   times.

   <patH> Or, to put it Eric's way, compositionality is buried in the
   clever optimizations.

   <kendallclark> I really dislike that intuitively, which is worth very
   little, but there you go.

   <patH> Interesting that the nasty case (use same variable several
   places) is exactly the case that breaks simpl entailment for OWL.

   <FredZ> ?x ?y ?z . OPTIONAL (...) ?a ?b ?c

   <EliasT> nay

   <FredZ> keep going

   <kendallclark> scribe: EliasT

   when?

   <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to talk about xpath operators

   right now?

   <AndyS> I have an idea I'd like to try out on you

   <kendallclark> PROPOSED: To adjourn

   <kendallclark> RESOLVED :>

   <ericP> ADJOURNED

   <AndyS> OPT( { ?x ?y ?z } , ... ) AND ?a ?b ?c

   <LeeF> FredZ, the first param to OPTIONAL is a mandatory triple

   <LeeF> the second param is the optional pattern

   <patH> see [31]http://www.w3.org/2002/01/UsingZakim

   <LeeF> A OPTIONAL { B } translates to OPT(A, B)

   <FredZ> x? y? z? OPTIONAL {?A ?B ?C} ?p ?q ?r

   <LeeF> this operationally means:

   <LeeF> AND(OPT({?x ?y ?z}, {?A ?B ?C}), {?p ?q ?r})

   <AndyS> a/b/c

   <AndyS> (a/b)/c

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: LeeF to fix mimetype in json-reults [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action09]

   [PENDING] ACTION: AndyS to resend a proposal to solve equality testing
   over email, ericP and patH to give eyes. [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: EliasT to submit mime-type registration for
   json-results. [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < >
   [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action04]
   [PENDING] ACTION: KendallC to tell Martin Soto that we're considering
   his comments [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action06]

   [DONE] ACTION: AndyS to resend a proposal to solve equality testing
   over email [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action01]
   [DONE] ACTION: AndyS: to draft of open-world = tests (unknown
   datatypes) [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action08]

   [DROPPED] ACTION: PatH to kibbitz with EricP about 3-part
   interpretation of optionals [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action07]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [40]scribe.perl version 1.127
    ([41]CVS log)
    $Date: 2006/06/16 08:49:10 $

References

   1. http://www.w3.org/
   2. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-irc
   3. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#agenda
   4. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#item01
   5. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#item02
   6. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#item03
   7. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#item04
   8. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#item05
   9. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes#ActionSummary
  10. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0140.html
  11. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0140
  12. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0156
  13. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0119
  14. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action01
  15. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action02
  16. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action03
  17. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action04
  18. http://www.w3.org/mid/20060612203520.GA16448@w3.org
  19. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action06
  20. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action07
  21. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action08
  22. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action09
  23. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0094.html
  24. http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions/
  25. http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions/
  26. http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions#add
  27. http://www.w3.org/mid/20060616071155.GA24910@w3.org
  28. http://www.w3.org/mid/20060612203520.GA16448@w3.org
  29. http://www.w3.org/mid/20060612203520.GA16448@w3.org
  30. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0158
  31. http://www.w3.org/2002/01/UsingZakim
  32. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action09
  33. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action02
  34. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action03
  35. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action04
  36. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action06
  37. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action01
  38. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action08
  39. http://www.w3.org/2006/06/13-dawg-minutes.html#action07
  40. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
  41. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
-- 
-eric

home-office: +1.617.395.1213 (usually 900-2300 CET)
cell:        +81.90.6533.3882

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Received on Friday, 16 June 2006 08:54:22 GMT

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