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Re: Work in progress on rq23

From: Seaborne, Andy <andy.seaborne@hp.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 10:01:01 +0000
Message-ID: <4190955D.2010100@hp.com>
To: Steve Harris <S.W.Harris@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: RDF Data Access Working Group <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>



Steve Harris wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 08, 2004 at 03:39:32PM +0000, Andy Seaborne wrote:
> 
>>A/ Section 6: More Pattern Matching ??? Alternatives
>>
>>Text added that uses UNION to handle alternatives, having looked through 
>>the email traffic on the comments list, on this list and on what various 
>>systems do about it.  I had a brief conversation with Steve before 
>>travelled to let him know I would be doing this.
> 
> 
> Andy, just to check I understand what it means - those {}'s in the UNION
> examples are just sugar, yes?
> 
> In principle
> 
> SELECT ?title ?author
> WHERE ( ?book dc10:title ?title )
>       ( ?book dc10:creator ?author )
> UNION ( ?book dc11:title ?title )
>       ( ?book dc11:creator ?author )
> 
> could be an alternative syntax? Just checking that UNION has a similar
> binding strength to SQLs UNION.
> 
> I prefer it without {}'s, but I'm not really bothered if theres a good
> parser/whatever reason for it.
> 
> - Steve
> 

Good point - the example in the doc isn't complex enough to show this and I'll 
expand it later.

Isn't the SQL case a little different because UNION/SQL is " SQLstatement UNION 
SQLstatement" so the grouping comes about anyway because its an SQL statement, 
making it "SELECT ... UNION SELECT ..." not inside a SELECT statement.


The UNION operator could be greedy in its binding as you have it or it could be 
not-greedy  - both are going to lead to confusion - its like the binding of "*" 
and "+" in arthimetic expressions except people aren't so used to it.  With 
explict AND and OR, it's usually higher operator precedence on & (i.e "&" is "*" 
and "|" is "+") and programmers get it wrong frequently.  But our conjunction is 
juxtaposition which throws things into confusion as to expectations based on syntax.

Consider these two fully grouped expressions:

# An expanded example:

SELECT ?title ?author ?price
WHERE
     { ( ?book dc10:title ?title ) ( ?book dc10:creator ?author ) }
     UNION
     { ( ?book dc11:title ?title ) ( ?book dc11:creator ?author ) }
     (?book info:priceOnAmazon ?price )


SELECT ?title ?price
WHERE
     { ( ?book dc11:title ?title ) UNION ( ?book dc10:title ?title ) }
     ( ?book info:priceOnAmazon ?price )


Whatever we decide about UNION, one of them needs the grouping.  To remove 
brackets, the first wants a greedy (low precedence) UNION operator, the second 
wants a non-greedy (high precedence) form.

If I had laid out your example as:

SELECT ?title ?author
WHERE ( ?book dc10:creator ?author )
       ( ?book dc10:title ?title ) UNION ( ?book dc11:title ?title )
       ( ?book dc11:creator ?author )

the people might expect the other form (not that they are going to get the right 
answers!).

All a good reason for insisting on the grouping.

My preference is:
+ calling it OR
+ explicit grouping for OR/UNION

	Andy
Received on Tuesday, 9 November 2004 10:01:23 GMT

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