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IRC minutes 7-Jul-2004

From: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 11:42:59 -0400
To: public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
Message-ID: <20040706154259.GB22833@w3.org>
2004-07-06T05:29:55Z -!- HiroyukiS [sato_hiroy@129.60.5.87] has joined #DAWG
2004-07-06T05:32:20Z -!- HiroyukiS [sato_hiroy@129.60.5.87] has quit [Client exited]
2004-07-06T14:24:33Z -!- SimonR [raboczi@67.23.145.158] has joined #dawg
2004-07-06T14:25:12Z -!- AndyS [AndyS@192.6.10.2] has joined #dawg
2004-07-06T14:25:25Z <AndyS> Hi all
2004-07-06T14:25:33Z <SimonR> Hi Andy.
2004-07-06T14:25:49Z <AndyS> Are we still on for car sharing?
2004-07-06T14:25:51Z <ericP> hi y'all
2004-07-06T14:26:07Z <AndyS> I'm assuming you'll find me as I get off my flight which is ...
2004-07-06T14:26:08Z -!- kendall [Kendall@216.164.63.22] has joined #dawg
2004-07-06T14:26:11Z <SimonR> AndyS: I hope so!
2004-07-06T14:26:40Z <AndyS> ... UA1053
2004-07-06T14:26:47Z -!- Yoshio [fuku@18.29.0.64] has joined #dawg
2004-07-06T14:26:53Z <ericP> simon, i think Date advocated subqueries replacing outer joins in relational algebra
2004-07-06T14:27:30Z <ericP> and that what whas missing was a proper reporting mechansim (tables wihtin tables)
2004-07-06T14:27:31Z <SimonR> ericP: Yes, he did, although he called them something else.
2004-07-06T14:28:14Z <AndyS> Relationship Valued Attributes
2004-07-06T14:28:30Z <SimonR> AndyS: Got it.  My cell number is 714-510-0658, which should also help getting us together.
2004-07-06T14:28:33Z <ericP> yeah, that
2004-07-06T14:28:34Z <AndyS> And he states it does not solve the missing information problem
2004-07-06T14:29:00Z <AndyS> SimonR - not really - I don't have a US capable mobile phone - different frequencies!
2004-07-06T14:29:03Z <ericP> so it's probably easier for this WG to rely on tristate logic and the outer joins (left, in the BRQL case) than to try to create Rel Valued Attributes
2004-07-06T14:29:04Z <SimonR> Unfortunately I don't have access to a proper library at the moment.
2004-07-06T14:29:48Z <AndyS> In edition 2 he says DB should support outer joins :-)
2004-07-06T14:29:49Z <SimonR> I'd have to be convinced that tri-state logic solves more problems than it introduces.  RDF is already inherently tri-state in some respects.
2004-07-06T14:30:22Z -!- HiroyukiS [sato_hiroy@129.60.5.87] has joined #DAWG
2004-07-06T14:30:46Z <ericP> if a foaf:knows b and be might have an email b@example.com, asking for ?a foaf:knows ?b. ?c = subquery(?b pim:mbox ?d).
2004-07-06T14:30:53Z <Yoshio> Hello, Sato san
2004-07-06T14:31:07Z <AndyS> Exactly - RDF always has the missing info issues
2004-07-06T14:31:18Z <ericP> ?c would bind to a sub table, ala a new ResultSet
2004-07-06T14:31:36Z <AndyS> Trouble with nesting as the only presentation is the complexity to the application writer
2004-07-06T14:31:39Z <ericP> appealing, but novel territory for us
2004-07-06T14:31:44Z -!- KevinW [Kevin.Wilk@192.6.19.124] has joined #dawg
2004-07-06T14:31:54Z <AndyS> +1 to EricP
2004-07-06T14:31:55Z -!- howardk [howardk@24.207.8.174] has joined #dawg
2004-07-06T14:32:18Z !mcclure.w3.org ericP invited Zakim into channel #dawg.
2004-07-06T14:32:18Z -!- Zakim [rrs-bridgg@18.29.0.30] has joined #dawg
2004-07-06T14:32:27Z <ericP> zakim, this is DAWG
2004-07-06T14:32:27Z <Zakim> ok, ericP; that matches SW_DAWG()10:30AM
2004-07-06T14:32:29Z <AndyS> ResultSet is not an RDF type - unlike relationship algebra where it is a (the) base type
2004-07-06T14:32:34Z <ericP> zakim, who is here?
2004-07-06T14:32:34Z <Zakim> On the phone I see Yoshio, +1.703.726.aaaa, HowardK, +1.913.491.aabb, Kevin
2004-07-06T14:32:36Z <Zakim> On IRC I see howardk, KevinW, HiroyukiS, Yoshio, kendall, AndyS, SimonR, ericP
2004-07-06T14:32:51Z <Zakim> + +1.301.768.aadd
2004-07-06T14:33:01Z <kendall> that's my new phone #
2004-07-06T14:33:10Z <Zakim> +??P26
2004-07-06T14:33:15Z <AndyS> zakin, ??P26 is AndyS
2004-07-06T14:33:18Z <AndyS> zakim, ??P26 is AndyS
2004-07-06T14:33:18Z <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
2004-07-06T14:33:29Z <Zakim> +Farrukh
2004-07-06T14:33:36Z <ericP> zakim, please dial ericP-617
2004-07-06T14:33:36Z <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
2004-07-06T14:33:37Z <Zakim> +EricP
2004-07-06T14:33:38Z <kendall> zakim, +1.301.768.aadd is Kendall
2004-07-06T14:33:38Z <Zakim> +Kendall; got it
2004-07-06T14:33:50Z <Zakim> -EricP
2004-07-06T14:33:53Z <ericP> zakim, please dial ericP-415
2004-07-06T14:33:53Z <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
2004-07-06T14:33:54Z <Zakim> +EricP
2004-07-06T14:34:01Z <Zakim> +??P28
2004-07-06T14:34:10Z <ericP> oops, forgot wher i was
2004-07-06T14:34:22Z -!- FarrukhNajmi [najmi@192.18.128.12] has joined #dawg
2004-07-06T14:35:27Z <kendall> zakim, mute me
2004-07-06T14:35:27Z <Zakim> Kendall should now be muted
2004-07-06T14:36:08Z <Yoshio> welcome
2004-07-06T14:36:12Z <SimonR> Present: AndyS, KevinW, Kendall, Farrukh, HowardK, DanC, EricP, HiroyukiS
2004-07-06T14:36:45Z <HiroyukiS> thank you, yoshio
2004-07-06T14:36:50Z -!- JosD [chatzilla@194.7.105.71] has joined #dawg
2004-07-06T14:36:57Z <Zakim> +JosD
2004-07-06T14:37:01Z <FarrukhNajmi> I cant make it July 12. Regrets
2004-07-06T14:37:04Z <kendall> zakim,  unmute me
2004-07-06T14:37:04Z <Zakim> Kendall should no longer be muted
2004-07-06T14:37:20Z <FarrukhNajmi> on vacation next 2 weeks
2004-07-06T14:37:49Z <SimonR> DanC raises the question of whether to have a teleconference on the 12th of July.
2004-07-06T14:38:13Z <SimonR> Resolved: no teleconference for the 12th or 13th of July.
2004-07-06T14:39:31Z <SimonR> DanC says that the agenda is running late.
2004-07-06T14:39:48Z <SimonR> (the face-to-face agenda)
2004-07-06T14:40:23Z <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0024.html
2004-07-06T14:42:20Z <SimonR> Skipping the vote on 3.6 Option Match for another meeting, for lack of the primary objectors needed to vote on it.
2004-07-06T14:43:03Z <SimonR> Confirmed that streamability has been updated.
2004-07-06T14:43:59Z <SimonR> Discussion of the ebXML use case presented by Farrukh.
2004-07-06T14:45:07Z <SimonR> The editor is inclined to include Farrukh's use case, but the question hasn't been put yet.
2004-07-06T14:45:44Z <SimonR> JimH isn't report on his UDDI use case.
2004-07-06T14:46:42Z <SimonR> Regarding the initial design poll  http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/initdn/
2004-07-06T14:47:04Z <SimonR> 7 give BRQL as 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice.
2004-07-06T14:47:18Z <SimonR> 6 give RDQL as 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice.
2004-07-06T14:48:05Z <SimonR> Interestingly, N3QL is the third place contender.
2004-07-06T14:50:36Z <SimonR> Discussion about how much effort should be made to get N3QL clarified by its deviser, TimBL.  (IRC, teleconference, written submission, etc)
2004-07-06T14:53:39Z <SimonR> So far, 11 answers to the initial design questionnaire.
2004-07-06T14:56:48Z <SimonR> Discussion of whether we could agree on RDQL/BRQL as our initial design before the F2F, select the initial design during the F2F, or defer it to a vote after the F2F.
2004-07-06T14:56:51Z <AndyS> I don't see N3QL as radically different except in syntax.
2004-07-06T14:56:53Z <AndyS> http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/BRQL/BRQL-description.html#Triple_Matching_Features
2004-07-06T15:00:23Z <AndyS> There is an RDQL test suite I can post
2004-07-06T15:01:38Z  * JosD agrees with Andy re: "I don't see N3QL as radically different except in syntax."
2004-07-06T15:01:49Z <kendall> syntax matters. :>
2004-07-06T15:01:55Z <JosD> :)
2004-07-06T15:02:29Z <SimonR> AndyS proposes as well as test cases and example queries, we could document a formal model of the query.  He doesn't expect this to be a large document.
2004-07-06T15:06:09Z <JosD> Comparison of RDF Query Languages http://www.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/WBS/pha/rdf-query/
2004-07-06T15:06:30Z <ericP> our subject for that was Subject: Re: A Comparison of RDF Query Languages
2004-07-06T15:07:22Z <SimonR> Both Kendall and SimonR are working on comparison matrices for the various languages.
2004-07-06T15:07:45Z <ericP> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/thread.html#194
2004-07-06T15:09:19Z <SimonR> Discussion about to what extent the functions and operators defined in XQuery for datatype operations will be required for the DAWG.
2004-07-06T15:15:07Z -!- DaveB [dajobe@137.222.34.57] has joined #dawg
2004-07-06T15:15:18Z <kendall> hi dave
2004-07-06T15:15:27Z <DaveB> hi, just irc only today
2004-07-06T15:16:19Z <AndyS> DanC is only on the phone
2004-07-06T15:16:33Z <AndyS> Simon is talking about XQuery-style result formats
2004-07-06T15:16:59Z <AndyS> For XQ, there is no std form of results so API will have to be general (c.f. DOM)
2004-07-06T15:17:31Z <AndyS> Howard+SimonR go on-list
2004-07-06T15:17:50Z <AndyS> SimonR offers to post something
2004-07-06T15:18:01Z <SimonR> (Thanks Andy, for taking up my scribing slack during the speech!  :) )
2004-07-06T15:19:07Z <Yoshio> What has become of  the group discount rate for the room?
2004-07-06T15:19:23Z <SimonR> DanC observes that we'll need a detailed agenda for the teleconferencing participants to the F2F, and asks how many there will be.
2004-07-06T15:21:08Z <SimonR> ACTION: JosD agrees to send pointers to test cases to the list.
2004-07-06T15:22:10Z <ericP> rrsagent, pointer?
2004-07-06T15:22:11Z <DaveB> I expect to dial in to f2f for 1-2 hours each day if available.
2004-07-06T15:22:21Z <AndyS> rrsagent not here
2004-07-06T15:22:41Z <AndyS> Propose to end meeting.
2004-07-06T15:23:03Z <SimonR> Kendall volunteers to scribe at the first session of the F2F.
2004-07-06T15:23:13Z <Zakim> -Kendall
2004-07-06T15:23:14Z <Zakim> -JosD
2004-07-06T15:23:15Z <AndyS> DaveB : Meeting over
2004-07-06T15:23:16Z <Zakim> -Farrukh
2004-07-06T15:23:17Z <Zakim> -HowardK
2004-07-06T15:23:24Z <Zakim> -Kevin
2004-07-06T15:23:24Z -!- DaveB [dajobe@137.222.34.57] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
2004-07-06T15:23:26Z -!- howardk [howardk@24.207.8.174] has quit [Quit: howardk]
2004-07-06T15:23:26Z -!- FarrukhNajmi [najmi@192.18.128.12] has left #dawg []
2004-07-06T15:23:29Z -!- KevinW [Kevin.Wilk@192.6.19.124] has left #dawg []
2004-07-06T15:23:42Z <Zakim> -Yoshio
2004-07-06T15:23:44Z <Yoshio> bye
2004-07-06T15:23:53Z -!- Yoshio [fuku@18.29.0.64] has left #dawg []
2004-07-06T15:24:08Z <Zakim> -??P28
2004-07-06T15:24:28Z -!- JosD [chatzilla@194.7.105.71] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7/20040616]]
2004-07-06T15:26:48Z -!- HiroyukiS [sato_hiroy@129.60.5.87] has quit [Client exited]
2004-07-06T15:27:18Z <Zakim> - +1.913.491.aabb
2004-07-06T15:32:15Z -!- kendall [Kendall@216.164.63.22] has quit [Quit: leaving]
2004-07-06T15:38:47Z <ericP> Simon: language where operands are triples with variabls in them
2004-07-06T15:39:05Z <ericP> ... and operators are logical ops (ORs and ANDs)
-- 
-eric

office: +81.466.49.1170 W3C, Keio Research Institute at SFC,
                        Shonan Fujisawa Campus, Keio University,
                        5322 Endo, Fujisawa, Kanagawa 252-8520
                        JAPAN
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(eric@w3.org)
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Received on Tuesday, 6 July 2004 11:42:59 GMT

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