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RE: use case dc-02

From: Howard Katz <howardk@fatdog.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 08:42:20 -0700
To: "Dirk Colaert" <Dirk.Colaert@quadrat.be>
Cc: <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <IKEOLCDFPBBPPAHGNKKOKEBGEKAA.howardk@fatdog.com>

Ah! A very good numbering scheme! :-)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dirk Colaert [mailto:Dirk.Colaert@quadrat.be]
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:34 AM
> To: 'Howard Katz'
> Cc: public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
> Subject: RE: use case dc-02
>
>
> These are my initials. It is only depicting that this is my
> second use case
> I submitted.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard Katz [mailto:howardk@fatdog.com]
> Sent: jeudi 8 avril 2004 17:25
> To: Dirk Colaert; Eric Prud'hommeaux
> Cc: Rob Shearer; public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
> Subject: RE: use case dc-02
>
> Right. That makes sense. Are you referencing an existing document here? I
> don't recognize the "dc-xx" numbering scheme.
>
> Howard
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: public-rdf-dawg-request@w3.org
> > [mailto:public-rdf-dawg-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Dirk Colaert
> > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:06 AM
> > To: 'Howard Katz'; Dirk Colaert; Eric Prud'hommeaux
> > Cc: Rob Shearer; public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
> > Subject: use case dc-02
> >
> >
> >
> > Use case dc-02: Query a query
> >
> > A server stores all queries committed. From time to time the security
> > administrator wants to know who has tried to query on data which
> > he/she had
> > no access to.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Howard Katz [mailto:howardk@fatdog.com]
> > Sent: jeudi 8 avril 2004 16:14
> > To: Dirk Colaert; Eric Prud'hommeaux
> > Cc: Rob Shearer; public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: Requirement: queries written as RDF
> >
> >
> > > >(2) If queries are represented in XML they can be treated as data
> > > > and you can run XQueries over a collection of XQueries.
> > >
> > > That's interesting. A Query expressed in RDF could be treated
> as RDF. It
> > > would be easy to do queries about queries. That's an argument for
> > > using RDF
> > > (or a subset, or a convertible format).
> > >
> > > All we have to do know is find a use case justifying this
> > > requirement... :-)
> >
> > It does sound wonderful, doesn't it? I too would like to know
> > what you would
> > want to query in a query. Examples anyone ... ?
> >
> > >
> > > Or do we have a solution without a problem?
> > >
> > > Dirk
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Howard Katz [mailto:howardk@fatdog.com]
> > > Sent: mercredi 7 avril 2004 7:08
> > > To: Eric Prud'hommeaux
> > > Cc: Rob Shearer; public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
> > > Subject: RE: Requirement: queries written as RDF
> > >
> > >
> > > I got several responses back from members of the Query wg on
> the XQueryX
> > > question. I particularly liked this one. I don't know if
> it'll shed any
> > > light on our own issues, but it's delightfully clear and succinct. The
> > > author prefers to remain anonymous.
> > >
> > > In response to a question on why XQueryX:
> > >
> > > > (1) An XML-based syntax was considered easier for machines to
> > > > generate and exchange than a human-oriented syntax that would
> > > > require some sophisticated parsing.
> > > > (2) If queries are represented in XML they can be treated as data
> > > > and you can run XQueries over a collection of XQueries.
> > > > (3) Since XML is known to be an answer to all questions, it must be
> > > > an answer to the question "What would be a good format for
> expressing
> > > > queries over XML data"?
> > >
> > > In response to a question on the technical difficulties that
> > > arose once the
> > > requirement was formulated:
> > >
> > > > Once the requirement for an XML query syntax was adopted,
> > > > arguments immediately broke out over the level of detail at
> > > which a query
> > > > should be broken down into XML elements. The working group
> > > finally settled
> > > > on two separate approaches that represent extreme points on the
> > > spectrum:
> > > > (a) The whole query is wrapped in a <query> element, and otherwise
> > > unchanged.
> > > > This approach obviously does not take the XML syntax
> requirement very
> > > seriously.
> > > > (b) The query is parsed, and each and every node in the parse tree
> > > (including individual
> > > > operators, function calls, steps in path expressions, etc.) is
> > > represented
> > > by its own
> > > > element, thus making the query incredibly verbose. This format is
> > > obviously useless to humans.
> > >
> > > > At various times and places, people have attempted to define some
> > > intermediate point
> > > > between these two extremes. These attempts have always ended in
> > > rancor and
> > > controversy.
> > >
> > > Finally, in a follow-up clarification:
> > >
> > > > I believe that the editor of the XQueryX specification is currently
> > > pursuing both approaches
> > > > (a) minimal expansion and (b) maximal expansion. Both will be
> > defined as
> > > valid forms of
> > > > XQueryX.
> > >
> > > Just to close on a personal note, I've always felt that XML is
> > > the answer to
> > > all questions. I'm now coming to feel increasingly that RDF is
> > > even more so!
> > >
> > > Howard
> > >
> > > > > On Sun, Apr 04, 2004 at 09:23:14AM -0700, Howard Katz wrote:
> > > >
> > > >    [snip ...]
> > > >
> > > > > > I certainly agree with the sentiments of the second, "human
> > > readable"
> > > > > > requirement. Interestingly enough, the third, "XML" requirement
> > > > > has been the
> > > > > > one that's caused the group the most difficulty to my
> > > > > knowledge, and at the
> > > > > > moment conformance with this requirement has been downgraded to
> > > > > optional. I
> > > > > > don't know what the major issues have been, but it might be
> > > > > interesting to
> > > > > > know, if only for the sake of curiosity.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can we go beyond the meta-lesson of "that may be hard. it's
> > been hard
> > > > > in XQuery" to some of the particular problems that
> > requirement caused
> > > > > the XQuery WG? Also, was this requirement born of some
> > compelling use
> > > > > cases, or a general notion that it's good practice to
> > express anything
> > > > > in XML?
> > > >
> > > > I wasn't trying to impart a particular lesson. My intention,
> > not knowing
> > > > what DAWG members know or don't know about it, was simply to
> > > > provide data on
> > > > the experience of the Query wg in the event that might prove
> > > useful to the
> > > > group. In response to your questions, I've asked several
> > > members of the wg
> > > > about their XQueryX experience. If they see fit to pass that on
> > > > to me, I'll
> > > > be happy to share it with the group.
> > > >
> > > > Howard
> > > >
> >
Received on Thursday, 8 April 2004 11:41:19 GMT

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