Re: Proposed charter change for the 'Why EPUB 4' issue

Why not "one of the fundamental publishing ecosystems"? Best. Bernhard

Am 20.03.2017 um 12:49 schrieb Leonard Rosenthol:
>
> Liisa – I completely agree with you and certainly wouldn’t suggest 
> that anyone wait for PWP or EPUB4…
>
> But to say that EPUB is THE fundamental technology for the global 
> publish ecosystem is simply false.  I think you would agree that the 
> web itself, printing presses, or any number of larger scale systems 
> are more fundamental to that ecosystem than EPUB.
>
> So making that one small change (of ‘the fundamental’ to ‘a 
> fundemantal”) will make the paragraph truthful and realistic.
>
> Leonard
>
> *From: *"McCloy-Kelley, Liisa" <lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com>
> *Date: *Monday, March 20, 2017 at 4:17 PM
> *To: *Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, Luc Audrain <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>
> *Cc: *Graham Bell <graham@editeur.org>, Leonard Rosenthol 
> <lrosenth@adobe.com>, W3C Publishing Business Group 
> <public-publishingbg@w3.org>, Bill Kasdorf 
> <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>, W3C Digital Publishing IG 
> <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>, W3C Publishing Steering Committee 
> <public-publishing-sc@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: Proposed charter change for the 'Why EPUB 4' issue
>
> Ivan-  I’m quite happy with what you have below and think Graham’s 
> changes have enhanced the original text.
>
> Leonard- I understand your point, but it is important for those of us 
> coming from the EPUB community to help people understand that it will 
> continue to be a strong format in this new world and that no one using 
> it now loses faith in continuing to use it for the near future. I met 
> someone at the EPUB Summit in Brussels who said “Oh- this PWP- I will 
> wait for it. It sounds fantastic.”  Yes, sure, it will be fantastic. 
> We’ll all make it fantastic and flexible. But no one should hold off 
> on digitization waiting for PWP.  I hope you can understand.
>
> *From: *Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>
> *Date: *Monday, March 20, 2017 at 3:16 AM
> *To: *Luc Audrain <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr 
> <mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>>
> *Cc: *Graham Bell <graham@editeur.org <mailto:graham@editeur.org>>, 
> Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>>, 
> W3C Publishing Business Group <public-publishingbg@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-publishingbg@w3.org>>, Bill Kasdorf 
> <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>>, 
> Microsoft Office User <lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com 
> <mailto:lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com>>, W3C Digital 
> Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org 
> <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>, W3C Publishing Steering Committee 
> <public-publishing-sc@w3.org <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: Proposed charter change for the 'Why EPUB 4' issue
>
> Just to be absolutely sure, and avoid further misunderstandings, is 
> this a text we can agreed upon? I adopted Graham's changes on the 
> original text and,  actually, I allowed myself to add one more 
> adjective, in line with the earlier comments (in another issue) of 
> Richard Ishida, our Internationalization guy on the team, namely 
> accessibility (this is something he asked to add on other places as 
> well). I have put in bold the two important parts of the text in this 
> discussion:
>
> [[[
>
> <a href="https://www.w3.org/Submission/2017/SUBM-epub31-20170125/ 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FSubmission%2F2017%2FSUBM-epub31-20170125%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754473139&sdata=uX8wZW07yTSl9MhTJlVqPv6kgeY1GL%2B4EGLY7H6qYKU%3D&reserved=0>">EPUB</a> 
> *has become the fundamental technology* for the global publishing 
> ecosystem (see the <a 
> href="https://w3c.github.io/dpubwg-charter/EPUB4_business_case.html 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io%2Fdpubwg-charter%2FEPUB4_business_case.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754483148&sdata=oja6w92AogW893Ixu%2FPSclWU9rKeFYrGTiVZA0gbf48%3D&reserved=0>">separate 
> document</a>, published by the <a 
> href="https://www.w3.org/community/publishingbg/ 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fcommunity%2Fpublishingbg%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754483148&sdata=Otgzz1fqmKRgBeSxh5cLUiY%2FOnQtxIrsYH0f%2BL9wL24%3D&reserved=0>">W3C 
> Publishing Business Group</a>, for more details and backgrounds). It 
> is the preferred format for a broad range of types of publications, 
> not only for distribution but also for authoring and production 
> workflows.  As part of the work on Web Publications, described in this 
> charter, it is also critical that a next generation of EPUB, currently 
> referred to as EPUB 4, *retain the specificity, portability, 
> predictability, internationalization, and accessibility* required by 
> the publishing ecosystem while benefitting from the improved features 
> and functionalities offered by Packaged Web Publications. EPUB 4 must 
> not be in conflict with Web Publications; it must be a type of Web 
> Publication that provides the predictability and interoperability that 
> this ecosystem has come to rely on.
>
> ]]
>
> Ivan
>
>     On 20 Mar 2017, at 07:41, AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr
>     <mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     I prefer original language and support Graham proposition about
>     « particular mention of accessibility ».
>
>     Luc
>
>     *De :*Graham Bell <graham@editeur.org <mailto:graham@editeur.org>>
>     *Date :*dimanche 19 mars 2017 22:59
>     *À :*Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com
>     <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>>
>     *Cc :*Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>, W3C
>     Publishing Business Group <public-publishingbg@w3.org
>     <mailto:public-publishingbg@w3.org>>, Bill Kasdorf
>     <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>>,
>     Liisa McCloy-Kelley <lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com
>     <mailto:lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com>>, W3C Digital
>     Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org
>     <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>, W3C Publishing Steering
>     Committee <public-publishing-sc@w3.org
>     <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>
>     *Objet :*Re: Proposed charter change for the 'Why EPUB 4' issue
>     *Renvoyer - De :*<public-digipub-ig@w3.org
>     <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>
>     *Renvoyer - Date :*dimanche 19 mars 2017 23:00
>
>     All
>
>     I'm don't agree with these proposed changes. They have the effect
>     of making it sound a little like accessibility is the only reason
>     to choose EPUB.
>
>     It is THE preferred format for a broad range of types of doc
>     (while not necessarily being preferred for some other types of
>     doc). And this is true irrespective of their level of
>     accessibility -- accessibility is_one of several_reasons to prefer
>     EPUB, and some are even listed in the next sentence.
>
>     Now I do agree there should be particular mention of
>     accessibility. So instead of moving accessible earlier in the
>     sentence, I would suggest it's added to "specificity, portability,
>     predictability and accessibility" instead.
>
>
>          It is the preferred format for a broad range of types
>         of accessible publications, not only for distribution but also
>         for authoring and production workflows, and for accessibility.
>         As part of the work on Web Publications, described in this
>         charter, it is also critical that a next generation of EPUB,
>         currently referred to as EPUB 4, retain the specificity,
>         portability, and predictability required by the publishing
>         ecosystem while benefitting from the improved features and
>         functionalities offered by Packaged Web Publications. EPUB 4
>         must not be in conflict with Web Publications; it must be a
>         type of Web Publication that provides the predictability and
>         interoperability that this ecosystem has come to rely on.
>
>
>     Graham Bell
>
>     EDItEUR
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>     On 19 Mar 2017, at 08:45, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com
>     <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>> wrote:
>
>         Proposed changes to the EPUB 4 text in the charter:  (changes
>         inline in red, and called out individually following)
>
>         <a
>         href="https://www.w3.org/Submission/2017/SUBM-epub31-20170125
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FSubmission%2F2017%2FSUBM-epub31-20170125&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754483148&sdata=FuQnA5rs5M3WPcXkVNZXabkNBdo88tMGSrf8Q7NEdjw%3D&reserved=0>/">EPUB</a>
>         has become a fundamental technology for the global publishing
>         ecosystem (see the <a
>         href="https://w3c.github.io/dpubwg-charter/EPUB4_business_case.html
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io%2Fdpubwg-charter%2FEPUB4_business_case.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754483148&sdata=oja6w92AogW893Ixu%2FPSclWU9rKeFYrGTiVZA0gbf48%3D&reserved=0>">separate
>         document</a>, published by the <a
>         href="https://www.w3.org/community/publishingbg
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fcommunity%2Fpublishingbg&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754483148&sdata=k6HHVrs1175F7O3iJYHbLH94MTgTloyKFWZoDvX09XY%3D&reserved=0>/">W3C
>         Publishing Business Group</a>, for more details and
>         backgrounds). It isapreferred format for a broad range of
>         types ofaccessiblepublications, not only for distribution but
>         also for authoring and production workflows, and for
>         accessibility. As part of the work on Web Publications,
>         described in this charter, it is also critical that a next
>         generation of EPUB, currently referred to as EPUB 4, retain
>         the specificity, portability, and predictability required by
>         the publishing ecosystem while benefitting from the improved
>         features and functionalities offered by Packaged Web
>         Publications. EPUB 4 must not be in conflict with Web
>         Publications; it must be a type of Web Publication that
>         provides the predictability and interoperability that this
>         ecosystem has come to rely on.
>
>         1 – the -> a (since there are many preferred formats used in
>         publishing depending on the context)
>
>         2 – moved accessibility to be more primary in the description
>         of publications (and make the sentence clearer)
>
>         Leonard
>
>         *From:*Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>
>         *Date:*Saturday, March 18, 2017 at 3:50 PM
>         *To:*W3C Publishing Business Group <public-publishingbg@w3.org
>         <mailto:public-publishingbg@w3.org>>
>         *Cc:*Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com
>         <mailto:bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>>, Liisa McCloy-Kelley
>         <lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com
>         <mailto:lmccloy-kelley@penguinrandomhouse.com>>, W3C Digital
>         Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org
>         <mailto:public-digipub-ig@w3.org>>, W3C Publishing Steering
>         Committee <public-publishing-sc@w3.org
>         <mailto:public-publishing-sc@w3.org>>
>         *Subject:*Proposed charter change for the 'Why EPUB 4' issue
>         *Resent-From:*<public-publishingbg@w3.org
>         <mailto:public-publishingbg@w3.org>>
>         *Resent-Date:*Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:50:33 +0000
>
>         Dear all,
>
>         as agreed on the F2F meeting in London, there is now a
>         proposal to settle Issue #27[1]. BillK (with minor help from
>         Liisa and I) has created a document on the business case of
>         EPUB & EPUB 4[2], and a there is also a proposal for the
>         charter text that contains a single paragraph and a reference
>         to that document[3] (see the paragraph right before section 2.1).
>
>         These changes have not yet been incorporated into the 'main'
>         charter (hence the funny URL-s [2] and [3]). Please either add
>         your  comment to [1] or the "Pull request" issue[4]. If you
>         want to propose specific editorial changes, that can also be
>         done by using [5] or [6], respectively.
>
>         Thanks
>
>         Ivan
>
>         P.S. The link to the 'business case' in the proposed new
>         charter paragraph does not work at this moment; it points to
>         the place where the final document will be if and when this
>         proposed change, a.k.a. 'pull request' is merged to the main
>         branch.
>
>         [1]https://github.com/w3c/dpubwg-charter/issues/27
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fdpubwg-charter%2Fissues%2F27&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754483148&sdata=bb9uilGZGw3tL1aFYT5qaAnlt%2FfF9b%2Fqd807YcSos3M%3D&reserved=0>
>
>         [2]
>         https://rawgit.com/w3c/dpubwg-charter/bcase-draft/EPUB4_business_case.html
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fdpubwg-charter%2Fbcase-draft%2FEPUB4_business_case.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754483148&sdata=oQn1D54r3EOD6GPnOYUyH0%2Fxchqy2Lyh1uoYskcdvY8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>         [3]
>         https://rawgit.com/w3c/dpubwg-charter/bcase-draft/index.html
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fdpubwg-charter%2Fbcase-draft%2Findex.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754483148&sdata=g2jHw%2F7dXIK7Mkjfg%2BWwsVoN6%2FTjmH850glwCVfwdmk%3D&reserved=0>
>
>         [4] https://github.com/w3c/dpubwg-charter/pull/41
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fdpubwg-charter%2Fpull%2F41&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754483148&sdata=tn8ws2Yi377Bh2msVZTz0Kz0EBdz1s%2Bp3LKkAFXWy3o%3D&reserved=0>
>
>         [5]
>         https://github.com/w3c/dpubwg-charter/blob/bcase-draft/EPUB4_business_case.html
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fdpubwg-charter%2Fblob%2Fbcase-draft%2FEPUB4_business_case.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754493157&sdata=C0DL9JKETkcn2nE3J08gT0IR6AGmd1azQrz5lrYT6nc%3D&reserved=0>
>
>         [6]
>         https://github.com/w3c/dpubwg-charter/blob/bcase-draft/index.html
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fdpubwg-charter%2Fblob%2Fbcase-draft%2Findex.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754493157&sdata=DJH%2BHzTxd3vH%2FRWxTxkkjYmMeX3bCXsfjYqLIOSmAHs%3D&reserved=0>
>
>         ----
>         Ivan Herman, W3C
>         Publishing@W3C Technical Lead
>         Home:http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FPeople%2FIvan%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754493157&sdata=R1yicV%2FlHkYFubISeZ3srCLW3SJeG5dDjKta%2FhsZ5Hg%3D&reserved=0>
>         mobile: +31-641044153
>
>         ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>         <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-0782-2704&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754493157&sdata=qC8RfIq%2B9PnHFiIp4I6aDOvtkt2SIJKmD2qm3fwWQL8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C
> Publishing@W3C Technical Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FPeople%2FIvan%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754493157&sdata=R1yicV%2FlHkYFubISeZ3srCLW3SJeG5dDjKta%2FhsZ5Hg%3D&reserved=0>
> mobile: +31-641044153
>
> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Forcid.org%2F0000-0003-0782-2704&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4e680bb5a68406db5fe08d46f7e8f4d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636256036754493157&sdata=qC8RfIq%2B9PnHFiIp4I6aDOvtkt2SIJKmD2qm3fwWQL8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>


-- 
Bernhard Heinser
Mobile: +41 (0)79 703 37 71

Swiss Foundation Access for All / CEO
(www.access-for-all.ch)
bernhard.heinser@access-for-all.ch

Received on Tuesday, 21 March 2017 07:59:17 UTC