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Re: All you need is URL

From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 11:39:50 +0200
Cc: W3C Publishing Working Group <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <FFFF12EE-790A-492C-940F-D2EE5ED50453@w3.org>
To: Laurent Le Meur <laurent.lemeur@edrlab.org>
Laurent,

I am busy making a new version, to be then edited by Matt, that plans to take care of these (and incorporates other changes that we agreed upon).

The notion of a URN is, actually, a bit orthogonal to the URL/IRI issue. What I did so far is to take over Romain's changes (and use URL-s everywhere) but, in the definition of an identifier, I explicitly lists URN-s as well as a possible syntax for identifiers.

I hope to have a text available soon.

Ivan


> On 15 Aug 2017, at 09:51, Laurent Le Meur <laurent.lemeur@edrlab.org <mailto:laurent.lemeur@edrlab.org>> wrote:
> 
> Can we first agree to avoid the term IRI? A status of the IRI work can be found in https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/IRIStatus <https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/IRIStatus> and it shows that IRI, as a project, is dead.
> 
> As the HTML 5 spec refers to the WhatWG URL spec, which in practice applies the term URL to the notion of URI (= locators + names), it is true that we should use "URL" is our specs, with a reference to https://url.spec.whatwg.org/ <https://url.spec.whatwg.org/> (1).
> 
> But in order to avoid repetitive questions, could we add a note in the section about the identifier metadata, stating that identifiers take the form of a URL (as defined in the spec) but are not necessary dereferencable, with a reference to the "old" notion of URN and a non-normative example using e.g. an ISBN urn? an interesting wording for creating this note can be found in (2)
> 
> (1) note the existence of  https://www.w3.org/TR/url/ <https://www.w3.org/TR/url/>, a W3C Note that links to the WhatWG spec but states "Work on this document has been discontinued and it should not be referenced or used as a basis for implementation".
> (2) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-1.2.2 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-1.2.2> 
> 
> Laurent
> 
> 
>> Le 15 août 2017 à 09:25, Romain <rdeltour@gmail.com <mailto:rdeltour@gmail.com>> a écrit :
>> 
>> 
>>> On 15 Aug 2017, at 02:20, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com <mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> We agreed to use the definition in the HTML 5 spec, which is an acceptable normative reference for URL.
>> 
>> Correct, and the only normative reference in W3C's HTML is the URL Standard by WhatWG:
>>   https://www.w3.org/TR/html/references.html#biblio-url <https://www.w3.org/TR/html/references.html#biblio-url>
>> 
>> 
>>> However, there are times where we may want/need a URI or IRI, such as when we need something that isn’t actually a “link” on the web (eg. a namespace).
>> 
>> That's where I disagree: the URL reference we agreed upon does obsolete URI or IRI, and it isn't just about "link" on the web.
>> So when, exactly, would we need to use "URI" or "IRI", except perhaps in an explanatory note alongside the [URL] reference?
>> 
>>> I don’t recall anyone suggesting a specific use case for URN.
>> 
>> URNs were mentioned several times in call discussions on IRC.
>> 
>> My email was to debunk stuff like "URI = URN + URL", or "URN is not a URL", or "URL is only for a “link” on the web", which is untrue with the normative reference we agreed to use.
>> 
>> Romain.
>> 
>> 
> 


----
Ivan Herman, W3C 
Publishing@W3C Technical Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ <http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/>
mobile: +31-641044153
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704 <http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704>
Received on Tuesday, 15 August 2017 09:40:12 UTC

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