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[Admin] Re: Why a default reading order?

From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 11:40:43 +0200
Cc: Luc Audrain <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>, W3C Publishing Working Group <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <4F40E098-24FA-4E54-808D-23DD995A5E4B@w3.org>
To: Fabrizio Venerandi <fabrizio.venerandi@quintadicopertina.com>
Fabrizio,

it is indeed preferable if your comments were registered as comments on github issues (or, if applicable, as completely new issues), rather than separate discussions on the mailing list.

Thanks!

Ivan


> On 7 Aug 2017, at 11:02, Fabrizio Venerandi <fabrizio.venerandi@quintadicopertina.com> wrote:
> 
> Thank you for the answer and link to the thread I missed.
> I’ll read all the discussion and the github issue.
> 
> 
> Fabrizio
> 
> 
>> Il giorno 07 ago 2017, alle ore 10:30, AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr> ha scritto:
>> 
>> Copying the W3C Publishing Working Group.
>> 
>> I encourage you to read the mail thread « definition of Web Publication »
>> where this has been discussed.
>> There is also a github issue open by Dave Cramer [1] where you could
>> contribute.
>> 
>> Luc
>> 
>> [1] https://github.com/w3c/wpub/issues/14
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Le 07/08/2017 09:47, « Fabrizio Venerandi »
>> <fabrizio.venerandi@quintadicopertina.com> a écrit :
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I think “no default” could be the better option. What is the “default
>>> order” in Wikipedia, for example?
>>> The problems with having an "order by default” are imho two:
>>> 
>>> a) with a default order "by default” (sorry) the digital publication is
>>> still designed as a “book”. So we will have more “digitalised books”
>>> instead “digital publications”.
>>> 
>>> b) the bigger one: I fear the reader’s support for non linear digital
>>> publications will still be a mess. I’m not only talking about the
>>> problems for have “closed islands” of information connected only by link,
>>> but also of the inappropriate technologies about rendering. For example:
>>> Ibooks, when a ebook is opened, is pre-paging all the ebook in
>>> background. This is cool for a “digitalised book”, but is inappropiate
>>> for a digital publications. Why paginate “pages” I’ll never reach? And
>>> what if, in "first page", I touch a link that brings me in the "last
>>> page" of the DP? The "default order” forces Ibooks to paginate the ebook
>>> following it, "page after page" and not the order the reader will use
>>> moving inside the publication. The concept of “first page” or “last page”
>>> in a digital publication is quite silly.
>>> 
>>> Fabrizio
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Il giorno 07 ago 2017, alle ore 09:22, AUDRAIN LUC
>>>> <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr> ha scritto:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> When you say « a digital publication that allow *multiple* reading order
>>>> by default », which one is he default?
>>>> Or do you mean there is no default?
>>>> 
>>>> The possibly of multiple reading order is an interesting use case.
>>>> I don¹t see that having one by default hinder that possibility.
>>>> 
>>>> Luc
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Le 07/08/2017 08:56, « Fabrizio Venerandi »
>>>> <fabrizio.venerandi@quintadicopertina.com> a écrit :
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I¹d like to share my perplexity about the recent definition about the
>>>>> reading order in digital publication:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ³The default reading order is the static progression through the
>>>>> primary
>>>>> resources defined in the manifest by the creator of a Web Publication.
>>>>> A
>>>>> user might follow alternative pathways through the content, but in the
>>>>> absence of such interaction the default reading order defines the
>>>>> expected progression from one primary resource to the next.²
>>>>> 
>>>>> Our publisher house is creating ebooks in ePub from 2010, and one of
>>>>> big
>>>>> limit in creating native digital ebook is the ³book² notion of ³default
>>>>> reading order². There is not a ³default reading order² in a website,
>>>>> but
>>>>> I need to allow one in a digital publication. This prevents me to build
>>>>> an ebook with several different "reading order² without the risk the
>>>>> reader can fall from one to another one. I can not set a rule for a
>>>>> chapter for ³don't go in another chapter when the user turn the last
>>>>> page². So, I can use the atomic complexity of a website for a digital
>>>>> publication, but I have to pray the user will use my hyperlink and does
>>>>> not turn the pages, because I have to ³flat down² my atomic resource
>>>>> to a
>>>>> linear book. Also, the concept of ³default reading order² caused a lot
>>>>> a
>>>>> misunderstanding for how handle the ³non default² chapters in ebook.
>>>>> The
>>>>> Œlinear-no¹ support in ePub and EPUB3 is a mess: someone handles it as
>>>>> a
>>>>> pop-up, someone like a normal chapter (but does not remember the page I
>>>>> was reading if I close the ebook), someone like a separate atom (but
>>>>> if I
>>>>> turn the last page I will ³fall² in another chapter), someone does not
>>>>> support linear-no at all. Et ceterae.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I hope the working group could still think about a digial pubblication
>>>>> that allow *multiple* reading order by default, and not a single one.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Fabrizio Venerandi
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 


----
Ivan Herman, W3C 
Publishing@W3C Technical Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
Received on Monday, 7 August 2017 09:40:52 UTC

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