Re: examples with blank nodes in prov-o html document

Is there a problem to solve here?

Otherwise, I'm happy to let it drop.

Regards,
Tim

On Feb 12, 2013, at 1:17 PM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:

> Hi Tim,
> 
> This would be your way of tackling the problem, but it's not a way that any PROV document
> has specified.
> That's why, from my point of view, this solution is not interoperable.
> 
> It is valid PROV-O, I agree, but without equivalent in the data model, since in this
> example, the derivation refers to a usage, and PROV mandates the presence of an identifier.
> 
> Luc
> 
> 
> On 12/02/13 18:08, Timothy Lebo wrote:
>> 
>> On Feb 12, 2013, at 12:07 PM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Tim,
>>> 
>>> I don't know of a way to translate this rdf in an interoperable way
>> 
>> 
>> (As I've said) I do; you mint an identifier.
>> 
>> 
>>> since we have not specified this in our specs.
>>> 
>>> It's for that reason I thought this example should be changed.
>> 
>> (are we still talking about https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/5495d990f17b/testcases/provo/prov-o-property-hadUsage-PASS.ttl ?)
>> 
>> But, it's valid PROV-O. Why should it be changed?
>> There's nothing special about the blank node other than it doesn't have a URI.
>> It's still a legitimate resource. And any URI that you choose to identify that resource will do.
>> 
>> Are you still suggesting that this example change?
>> 
>> -Tim
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Luc
>>> 
>>> On 02/12/2013 03:26 PM, Timothy Lebo wrote:
>>>> On Feb 12, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> If we do, and convert back to rdf, we don't have an equivalent rdf representation.
>>>> Yes, you would :-)
>>>> 
>>>> -Tim
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>>>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>>>> University of Southampton
>>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>>> United Kingdom
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:00, "Timothy Lebo" <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2013, at 9:57 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dm/XML/prov-n require an explicit identifier which we don't have in this example.
>>>>>> Why not make one up?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -TIm
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>>>>>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>>>>>> University of Southampton
>>>>>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>>>>> United Kingdom
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 12 Feb 2013, at 14:54, "Timothy Lebo" <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Luc,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2013, at 9:25 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The prov-o document has several examples with blank nodes.
>>>>>>>>>>> Some of them are difficult
>>>>>>>>>>> to express in prov-n/prov-xml.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Consider:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/5495d990f17b/testcases/provo/prov-o-property-hadUsage-PASS.ttl
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The usage has no identifier we can use in the derivation.
>>>>>>>>>> Any identifier will do; you may choose a new one for each bnode you find.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Should we keep examples of this kind in the specification or should we introduce an explicit
>>>>>>>>>>> identifier for usage here?
>>>>>>>>>> We are using blank nodes to help the reader focus on the structure of the PROV-O pattern.
>>>>>>>>>> I think this is appropriate for the audience of PROV-O.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps it's just a matter of knowing how to handle bnodes when mapping to other serializations?
>>>>>>>>> We don't specify that. So, we don't  how express that example in prov-xml/prov-n.
>>>>>>>> In XML, it'd be an element with no @id attribute (since, that's exactly what a blank node is).
>>>>>>>> I haven't written any translators to XML or N, so I guess I don't understand the problem clearly enough.
>>>>>>>> What is difficult about "filling something in" if it's not there?
>>>>>>>> This is exactly the correct interpretation of a bnode.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Professor Luc Moreau
> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
> 

Received on Tuesday, 12 February 2013 18:26:36 UTC