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Re: Primary Source again (Re: PROV-ISSUE-518: Data Model Section 5.2.4 ) [prov-dm]

From: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:25:07 +0200
Message-ID: <CAJCyKRqca2rSJPuRkTZ=0mOEJCwKea=srkRrfcwvCfvcitynTw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Cc: Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
I'm fine with it.

An interesting note in your response, is that we use a relation and
not a subtype because of the "context" issue that was brought up.

cheers
Paul

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
> Would be nice if Paul and Tim could confirm they are fine.
>
> Professor Luc Moreau
> Electronics and Computer Science
> University of Southampton
> Southampton SO17 1BJ
> United Kingdom
>
>
> On 25 Sep 2012, at 18:01, "Stephan Zednik" <zednis@rpi.edu<mailto:zednis@rpi.edu>> wrote:
>
> That reads ok to me.
>
> --Stephan
>
> On Sep 25, 2012, at 10:57 AM, Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> HI Stephan,
>
> I would just drop "relation" (because we define the concept) and "represents":
>
> A primary source is a derivation from an entity that was produced by some agent with direct experience and knowledge about the entity's conceptual topic, at the time of the topic's study, without benefit of hindsight.
>
> Luc
>
> On 09/25/2012 05:48 PM, Stephan Zednik wrote:
> How is this?
>
> A primary source relation represents a derivation from an entity that was produced by some agent with direct experience and knowledge about the entity's conceptual topic, at the time of the topic's study, without benefit of hindsight.
>
> --Stephan
>
> On Sep 25, 2012, at 3:41 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> How do we address this issue?
> The current definition is:
>
> A primary source ◊<http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm/#concept-primary-source> for a topic refers to something produced by some agent with direct experience and knowledge about the topic, at the time of the topic's study, without benefit from hindsight.
>
> I wonder whether the wording 'refers to' is suitable here. We don't mean 'is', but 'a derivation from'. Would this address the concern?
>
> Luc
>
>
> On 10/09/2012 09:46, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>
> PROV-ISSUE-518: Data Model Section 5.2.4   [prov-dm]
>
> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/518
>
> Raised by: Luc Moreau
> On product: prov-dm
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/LC_Feedback#Data_Model_Section_5.2.4
>
> ISSUE-463
>
> The definition of a "primary source" implies that it is an entity when in fact the term qualifies the role that a given entity plays during the creation of a new entity, not the derivation itself. This might seem to be a minor point, but it is clearly different from both revision and quotation, both of which could be used when deriving a new entity from an entity used as a primary source.
>
> It is also important to note that a given entity might be a primary source for one entity but not another ("primary source" is context-dependent).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Professor Luc Moreau
> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm<http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/%7Elavm>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Professor Luc Moreau
> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>
>
>



-- 
--
Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
Assistant Professor
- Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group |
  Artificial Intelligence Section | Department of Computer Science
- The Network Institute
VU University Amsterdam
Received on Tuesday, 25 September 2012 18:25:35 GMT

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