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Re: PROV-ISSUE-482: [external question] bundle IDs on insertion, context [prov-dm]

From: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 13:55:40 +0200
Message-ID: <CAJCyKRoSm9WUNyEFS=9Edd8EbMurVM2CSn10S7KqzEPRw6XZtg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Graham Klyne <graham.klyne@zoo.ox.ac.uk>
Cc: Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Hi Graham,

I agree that the use of trig may cause confusion. I however think we
can show bundles in rdf just using the concept of a data file to
illustrate bundles so we would remove any cause for confusion.

cheers
Paul

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Graham Klyne <graham.klyne@zoo.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> On 04/09/2012 17:37, Paul Groth wrote:
>> Luc,
>>
>> I agree that this is inherited. Once you start using URIs you are
>> bound to their semantics which means they denote the same resource.
>> Furthermore, I think it would be weird for us to say anything about it
>> as it's treading on other specs turf.
>
> With RDF as it stands, I agree.  And I agree about not treading on other
> specifications' turf.
>
> But an option that I don't think is entirely resolved is how bundles are
> represented in RDF:  as I recall, some of the examples in the ontology document
> use TRiG notation for bundles, which goes beyond current RDF but which *might*
> correspond to datasets in the forthcoming version of RDF.
>
> Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any consensus on semantics for datasets ... but
> it is conceivable that URIs in named graphs within a Dataset won't be
> constrained to use the same (model theoretic) interpretation (via which the
> denotation is obtained) as the default graph or other named graphs.  In which
> case the assumption of inheritance may be off.  All this is speculation, but I'm
> bothered that we get to this stage without a clear steer from the RDF
> Datasets/named graph situation.
>
> Which I suppose may be why the provenance specs are currently silent on the
> issue of how ids in different bundles are related.
>
> #g
> --
>
>
>> regards
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Luc Moreau<l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>  wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> I am trying to establish whether this question requires clarifications in
>>> our documents or not.
>>>
>>> Which IDs are we referring to here? Bundle IDs or IDs of entities/agents/etc
>>> asserted in bundles?
>>> I assume it's entity/agent/etc IDs.
>>>
>>> I believe that both prov-dm and prov-constraints are silent about how to
>>> interpret a given identifier
>>> used in two different bundles.
>>>
>>> For instance, we can write:
>>>
>>> bundle b1
>>>    entity(id)
>>> endBundle
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> bundle b2
>>>     activity(id)
>>> endBundle
>>>
>>> This is valid provenance (according to prov-constraints). It is not required
>>> explicitly by prov-dm/prov-constraints
>>> that the identifier/uri id denotes the same resource in both bundles.  But
>>> isn't this a principle automatically
>>> "inherited" from the Web architecture?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Luc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20/08/12 20:27, Timothy Lebo wrote:
>>>
>>> Tracker, this is the original email from satra:
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/mid/CA+A4wO=MwhCCMfaaRJwpBsfN6JCCOh_AhAkANxuP7wUhNNamFg@mail.gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -Tim
>>>
>>> On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:16 PM, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>>
>>> PROV-ISSUE-482: [external question] bundle IDs on insertion, context
>>> [prov-dm]
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/482
>>>
>>> Raised by: Timothy Lebo
>>> On product: prov-dm
>>>
>>> hi all,
>>>
>>> if one were implementing a database storing prov bundles, would we have to
>>> ensure that IDs don't clash in the database insertion code? or is the
>>> understanding that IDs are only meant to be unique within a given bundle
>>> context?
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> satra
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>>
>>
>>
>>



-- 
--
Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
Assistant Professor
- Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group |
  Artificial Intelligence Section | Department of Computer Science
- The Network Institute
VU University Amsterdam
Received on Thursday, 6 September 2012 11:56:12 GMT

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