W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-prov-wg@w3.org > October 2012

Re: PROV-ISSUE-516: Data Model Section 5.2.1 [prov-dm]

From: Khalid Belhajjame <Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 14:44:47 +0100
Message-ID: <CAANah+H_9mXmmU4_2zCqj=j54c6_Hyo_apCLqCsWRofsVqd-VA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
Cc: Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Hi Paul,

On 3 October 2012 13:59, Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl> wrote:
> Hi Khalid,
>
> I don't understand your suggestion. A derivation is a transformation
> that is performed by an activity.

What I meant is that the definition "Derivation is a transformation",
implies that derivation is "action", and that the reader may wrongly
infer that it is a sort of action. Hence, the suggestion is to
slightly reword the definition of derivation to avoid that

khalid

We just don't always say what
> activity did the transformation.
>
> regards
> Paul
>
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Khalid Belhajjame
> <Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think that the confusion that the reviewer had stems from the fact
>> that derivation is defined as "transformation", which one may argue is
>> an activity.
>>
>> So, I guess we may need to slightly change the definition of
>> Derivation. Rather than stating "Derivation is a tranformation",
>> replacing with something in the lines of "Derivation is used to that
>> an entity was constructed by updating or ? another entity", would
>> address the reviewer concerns and avoid confusion.
>>
>> Thanks, khalid
>>
>> On 25 September 2012 12:10, Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> I have drafted a response to ISSUE-516 on the wiki at:
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments#ISSUE-516_.28DerivationAsBundle.29
>>> It is copied below for your convenience.
>>>
>>> Feedback appreciated.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Luc
>>>
>>> ISSUE-516 (DerivationAsBundle)
>>>
>>> Original email:
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Sep/0106.html
>>> Tracker: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/516
>>> Group Response:
>>>
>>> A derivation is not an activity, a derivation is a transformation of an
>>> entity to another. A derivation may be realized by one or more activities.
>>> If a derivation (between e2 and e1) is realized by one known activity, then
>>> that activity generated e2 and used e1.
>>> All this is formalized in the constraints document (see references).
>>> The reason why derivation can refer to a usage and a generation is that we
>>> wanted to be able to express the derivation path in full. This is particular
>>> important in a number of use cases, including result reproducibility.
>>> So, derivation is a construct that refers to two entities, an activity
>>> (similarly to other relations in the model) and in addition to a usage and a
>>> generation, by means of their identifiers. (Reminder: these identifiers
>>> identify entity/activity/usage/generation and not statements).
>>> A bundle is a set of provenance statements. (Reminder: statements do not
>>> have identifiers.)
>>> Hence, a derivation is not a bundle, it does not contain statements.
>>>
>>> References:
>>>
>>> derivation expandable parameters:
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-prov-constraints-20120911/#expandable-parameters-fig
>>> derivation constraint:
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-prov-constraints-20120911/#derivation-generation-use-inference_text
>>>
>>> Original author's acknowledgement:
>>>
>>> [edit]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/09/2012 09:45, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>>
>>> PROV-ISSUE-516: Data Model Section 5.2.1   [prov-dm]
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/516
>>>
>>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>> On product: prov-dm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/LC_Feedback#Data_Model_Section_5.2.1
>>>
>>> ISSUE-463
>>>
>>> See comments for 2.1.2, as well as the text that indicates that a derivation
>>> is an activity ("underpinning activities performing the necessary actions
>>> resulting in such a derivation"). However, it seems the intended concept of
>>> a derivation is a summary of information that describes how the creation of
>>> one entity was informed by another. If this is correct, is a derivation a
>>> type of bundle? Or would a bundle contain statement(s) regarding a
>>> derivation? Please clarify the relationship between these concepts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
> Assistant Professor
> - Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group |
>   Artificial Intelligence Section | Department of Computer Science
> - The Network Institute
> VU University Amsterdam
Received on Wednesday, 3 October 2012 13:45:20 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 21:58:19 UTC