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Re: PROV-ISSUE-516: Data Model Section 5.2.1 [prov-dm]

From: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 14:59:15 +0200
Message-ID: <CAJCyKRpnEQ64JaOGYQBogUg4CBCuC6hcK9xO77vtGY2_OLt3Mw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Khalid Belhajjame <Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk>
Cc: Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Hi Khalid,

I don't understand your suggestion. A derivation is a transformation
that is performed by an activity. We just don't always say what
activity did the transformation.

regards
Paul

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Khalid Belhajjame
<Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think that the confusion that the reviewer had stems from the fact
> that derivation is defined as "transformation", which one may argue is
> an activity.
>
> So, I guess we may need to slightly change the definition of
> Derivation. Rather than stating "Derivation is a tranformation",
> replacing with something in the lines of "Derivation is used to that
> an entity was constructed by updating or ? another entity", would
> address the reviewer concerns and avoid confusion.
>
> Thanks, khalid
>
> On 25 September 2012 12:10, Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I have drafted a response to ISSUE-516 on the wiki at:
>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicComments#ISSUE-516_.28DerivationAsBundle.29
>> It is copied below for your convenience.
>>
>> Feedback appreciated.
>> Thanks,
>> Luc
>>
>> ISSUE-516 (DerivationAsBundle)
>>
>> Original email:
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Sep/0106.html
>> Tracker: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/516
>> Group Response:
>>
>> A derivation is not an activity, a derivation is a transformation of an
>> entity to another. A derivation may be realized by one or more activities.
>> If a derivation (between e2 and e1) is realized by one known activity, then
>> that activity generated e2 and used e1.
>> All this is formalized in the constraints document (see references).
>> The reason why derivation can refer to a usage and a generation is that we
>> wanted to be able to express the derivation path in full. This is particular
>> important in a number of use cases, including result reproducibility.
>> So, derivation is a construct that refers to two entities, an activity
>> (similarly to other relations in the model) and in addition to a usage and a
>> generation, by means of their identifiers. (Reminder: these identifiers
>> identify entity/activity/usage/generation and not statements).
>> A bundle is a set of provenance statements. (Reminder: statements do not
>> have identifiers.)
>> Hence, a derivation is not a bundle, it does not contain statements.
>>
>> References:
>>
>> derivation expandable parameters:
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-prov-constraints-20120911/#expandable-parameters-fig
>> derivation constraint:
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-prov-constraints-20120911/#derivation-generation-use-inference_text
>>
>> Original author's acknowledgement:
>>
>> [edit]
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/09/2012 09:45, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>
>> PROV-ISSUE-516: Data Model Section 5.2.1   [prov-dm]
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/516
>>
>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>> On product: prov-dm
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/LC_Feedback#Data_Model_Section_5.2.1
>>
>> ISSUE-463
>>
>> See comments for 2.1.2, as well as the text that indicates that a derivation
>> is an activity ("underpinning activities performing the necessary actions
>> resulting in such a derivation"). However, it seems the intended concept of
>> a derivation is a summary of information that describes how the creation of
>> one entity was informed by another. If this is correct, is a derivation a
>> type of bundle? Or would a bundle contain statement(s) regarding a
>> derivation? Please clarify the relationship between these concepts.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>
>



-- 
--
Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
Assistant Professor
- Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group |
  Artificial Intelligence Section | Department of Computer Science
- The Network Institute
VU University Amsterdam
Received on Wednesday, 3 October 2012 12:59:47 UTC

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