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Re: provenance of provenance

From: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 11:44:27 -0400
Cc: Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <8DF339D9-BCBF-4446-9A8A-FB6D6E8B547B@rpi.edu>
To: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Luc,

within.


On May 16, 2012, at 5:34 AM, Luc Moreau wrote:

> Hi Tim,
> Some comment below.
> 
> On 05/15/2012 08:34 PM, Timothy Lebo wrote:
>> 
>> Luc,
>> 
>> Regarding http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd6-bundle.html
>> 
>> 
>> Regarding proposal:
>> 
>> +0 to dropping 'account'
>> +0 to introducing 'bundle' to rename 'account' (I think 'account' is a satisfactory name and is more "provenance-y" than the mechanical notion of 'bundle'; note that 'bundle' was first introduced only to distinguish itself from the construct-heave 'account' at the time.)
>> +1 to dropping hasAnnotation and Note
>> +1 to adding the component on bundles (I'm leaning towards 'account' now that we've shucked the heavy widgets it once had.)
>> 
>> (I'm happy with either 'bundle' or 'account')
>> 
>> 
>> Comments on the actual text is below.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Tim
>> 
>> 
>> 3)
>> 
>> After:
>> "hasProvenanceIn(ex:report1,
>> -, -, -, "http://example.com/some-provenance.pn"^xsd:anyURI)"
>> 
>> 
>>   
>> Could we add another
>> example where your Provenance-URI itself defines a bundle?
>> 
>> 
>>   
>> 
>>   
>> hasProvenanceIn(ex:report1, ex:bundle34, -, -, "http://example.com/some-provenance.pn"^xsd:anyURI)
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> 
>>   
>> 
>>   
> 
> OK that can be added. I am concerned about the already large number of examples in this section.


Perhaps, but it was my first question in reading it, and I'd rather another 2 inches of page to put the concern to bed.


> 
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> 
>>   
>> 
>>   
>> 4)
>> 
>>   
>> Can you make the visualization tool use its own URIs for the
>> graphics depicting the reports?
>> 
>>   entity(ex:report1, [viz:color="orange"])
>>   hasProvenanceIn(ex:report1, obs:bundle7, -, -, -)
>> 
>>   entity(ex:report2, [viz:color="blue"])
>>   hasProvenanceIn(ex:report2, obs:bundle7, -, -, -)
>> ->
>> 
>>   entity(tool:graphic1, [viz:color="orange"])
>>   hasProvenanceIn(tool:graphic1, obs:bundle7, ex:report1, -, -)
>> 
>>   entity(tool:graphic2, [viz:color="blue"])
>>   hasProvenanceIn(ex:graphic2, obs:bundle7, ex:report2, -, -)
> We could, but there is nothing in the model that forbids the current example, is there?


Correct, this is a matter of modeling your domain, not the PROV model. I consider the graphics to be distinct from those things that they depict.
I'd rather avoid this domain concern and focus on the fact that we get an alternateOf for free.



>> 5)
>> 
>> Why is it necessary that:
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> 
>>   
>> 
>>   "it is necessary for it to have an identifier in the first place (ex:d)."
>> 
>> 
> 
> I am updating the text as follows.  Does clarify the issue, or is there a more fundamental concern?

I just didn't understand what it was going to say.

> 
> 
> According to their definition, derivations have an optional identifier. To express an alternate for a derivation, we need to be able to reference it, by means of an identifier. Hence, it is necessary for it to have an identifier in the first place (ex:d).

This makes sense.

Regards,
Tim


> 
> 
> 
> Luc
> 
> 
>> On May 10, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Luc Moreau wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear all,
>>> 
>>> We are seeking feedback on text regarding bundles (allowing provenance
>>> of provenance to be expressed).
>>> 
>>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd6-bundle.html
>>> 
>>> It is addressing ISSUES-257, ISSUE-260, ISSUE-88, ISSUE-297.
>>> We will respond to these issues individually, shortly.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Luc
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Professor Luc Moreau               
> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487         
> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865         
> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk  
> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Wednesday, 16 May 2012 15:45:03 GMT

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