W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-prov-wg@w3.org > May 2012

Re: PROV-ISSUE-370 (tracedTo-inference-only): Should tracedTo be moved to prov-constraints and be defined as a binary relation that can be inferred [prov-dm]

From: Stian Soiland-Reyes <soiland-reyes@cs.manchester.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 10:33:48 +0100
Message-ID: <CAPRnXtkQY_QB5EOy=kbfj41fuz1hYSau9z00f21FF5KNuCm9uA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>
Cc: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
That is a good use-case.

prov:tracedTo is also appropriate when A is not necessarily derived
from B, but is still "somehow" influenced by it.

It's interpretation in PROV is that B must have been generated before
A was generated, and is a hint that B is "in A's provenance past" -
perhaps opening for deeper queries to find that path.

It can also be an extension point for "other" domain-specific
relationships, for instance ex:wasPresent or ex:influenced.


On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl> wrote:
> My concrete use case would be to put things like confidence values on
> these links. For example, in one of our systems we "guess" if there is
> a tracedto and what to put some confidence value on that link. This is
> one of the reasons I like attributes in the model.
>
> We could do this with derivation so it's not a big deal but the nice
> thing is that traced to is transitive...
>
> cheers
> Paul
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> Do you have a concrete use case, in particular, with attributes?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Luc
>>
>> On 04/30/2012 12:17 PM, Paul Groth wrote:
>>> I think traced-to is useful to sometime assert especially in the case
>>> where you want to be very vague about provenance. It's also nice to
>>> have attributes so that you can associate other sorts of information
>>> with it.
>>>
>>> However, if others think it's nicer to be inference only then I won't
>>> be stand in the way.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Provenance Working Group Issue
>>> Tracker<sysbot+tracker@w3.org>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> PROV-ISSUE-370 (tracedTo-inference-only): Should tracedTo be moved to prov-constraints and be defined as a binary relation that can be inferred [prov-dm]
>>>>
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/370
>>>>
>>>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>>> On product: prov-dm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> TracedTo was introduced in the data model so as to have a transitive relation over derivations, etc. It can be inferred. In contrast, its definition as an assertion was not very compelling. In the latest version of prov-constraints, it is only defined as something that can be inferred.
>>>>
>>>> Really, it looks like a relation that is useful to express queries.
>>>>
>>>> So, in the spirit of simplification, should we move it out of prov-dm, and have it defined in prov-constraints only.
>>>>
>>>> At the same time, it could be simplified to a binary relation, since we have no way of inferring attributes for this relation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Dr. Paul Groth (p.t.groth@vu.nl)
> http://www.few.vu.nl/~pgroth/
> Assistant Professor
> Knowledge Representation & Reasoning Group
> Artificial Intelligence Section
> Department of Computer Science
> VU University Amsterdam
>



-- 
Stian Soiland-Reyes, myGrid team
School of Computer Science
The University of Manchester
Received on Wednesday, 2 May 2012 09:34:40 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Wednesday, 2 May 2012 09:34:41 GMT