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Re: prov-wg: Telecon Agenda March 8, 2012

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 09:04:33 +0000
Message-ID: <EMEW3|4674e82d22e82a3a4eb0c6e0833391d5o2794Z08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4F587621.6060303@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Graham Klyne <graham.klyne@zoo.ox.ac.uk>
CC: Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Hi Graham,
yes, it's in the repo, at the URL you indicate.

Luc

On 03/07/2012 04:54 PM, Graham Klyne wrote:
> Is the change in the repo?
>
> Looking at 
> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-dm-derivation.html, 
> I'm still seeing:
>
> I'll respond to your other comments once I'm confident I'm seeing the 
> right version :)
>
> [[
> A derivation, written wasDerivedFrom(id, e2, e1, a, g2, u1, attrs) in 
> PROV-ASN, contains:
>
> id: an optional identifier for a derivation;
>
> generatedEntity: the identifier of the entity generated by the 
> derivation;
>
> usedEntity: the identifier of the entity used by the derivation;
>
> activity: an optional identifier for the activity using and generating 
> the above entities;
>
> generation: an optional identifier for the generation involving the 
> generated entity and activity;
>
> usage: an optional identifier for the usage involving the used entity 
> and activity;
>
> attributes: an optional set of attribute-value pairs that describe the 
> modalities of this derivation.
> ]]
>
> On 07/03/2012 12:12, Luc Moreau wrote:
>> Hi Graham, all,
>>
>> Thanks for your input. I made a few changes
>> - i fixed the asn
>> - i reordered the examples so that the simple one comes first
>> - i provided a brief explanation as to why it is useful to have 
>> activity,
>> generation and usage mentioned.
>>
>> Regarding the statement about transitivity, i don't think it's 
>> unreasonable to
>> have it here. It's inline with
>> what we say for wasInformedBy, not transitive either. But, if people 
>> feel we
>> shouldn't say anything
>> about the characteristics of relations in part 1, I have got not 
>> objection
>> moving this to part 2.
>> Maybe we should only say when a relation *is* transitive.
>>
>> It would be good to hear what people think.
>>
>> I hope it helps,
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Luc
>>
>> On 06/03/2012 21:30, Graham Klyne wrote:
>>> On 06/03/2012 13:41, Paul Groth wrote:
>>>> 2) There is a proposal on derivation to resolve ISSUE-249. Please see
>>>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-dm-derivation.html 
>>>>
>>>>
>>> In its present form, I can't be sure what it's trying to say, so I'd 
>>> have to
>>> vote against.
>>>
>>> The ASN template and the description of terms do not match up.
>>>
>>> I don't understand "identifier for the generation involving the 
>>> generated entity
>>> and activity"
>>>
>>> I don't understand " identifier for the usage involving the used 
>>> entity and
>>> activity"
>>>
>>> Assuming section 1 is intended to go in DM part 1, then I think the 
>>> paragraphj
>>> about transitivity is out of place.
>>>
>>> Why do we need anything other than:
>>>
>>> wasDerivedFrom(e2, e1, [attr])
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> At heart, generation is about two entities and an activity, so the 
>>> full gamut of
>>> possibilities can be captured by
>>>
>>> wasGeneratedBy
>>> used
>>>
>>> statements
>>>
>>> Thus the wasDerivedFrom is available as a convenience property to 
>>> describe the
>>> derivation when further information about the activity is not 
>>> available.
>>>
>>> Note that I've deliberately ignored the multiple-stage derivation 
>>> case. When
>>> the derivation passes through a chain of activities, one could, if 
>>> needed,
>>> introduce a new activity that is the composition of the sequence 
>>> involved in the
>>> derivation. In practice, I don't see that this arises in the simple 
>>> cases.
>>>
>>> In summary, I propose: simplify!
>>>
>>> #g
>>> -- 
>>>
>>

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Thursday, 8 March 2012 09:05:00 GMT

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