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Re: PROV-ISSUE-89 (what-entity-attributes): How do we find the attributes of an entity? [Formal Model]

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 22:14:45 +0000
Message-ID: <EMEW3|87e69847f14ea9eb2d78cee7823efe6ao24MEp08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4F553AD5.3050100@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>
CC: Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Hi Tim,

I think that somewhere in the prov-o html document, there should be a 
section
that talks about "proper" provenance (or whatever its name is), and 
discusses attributes.
So, as long as we remember to discuss this, I think we can close the issue.

Luc

On 05/03/12 22:06, Timothy Lebo wrote:
> On Mar 5, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Luc Moreau wrote:
>
>    
>> Hi Tim,
>>
>> Indeed, we no longer make the distinction between characterizing and non-characterizing attributes.
>>
>> In "proper" provenance, attributes are still very important, since they help describe a "partial state".
>> Hence, some constraints exist around attributes:
>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm-constraints.html#account-and-accountEntity
>> (For instance, see 3rd bullet point).
>>      
> Yes, the 3rd bullet and "It is not permitted to add new attributes to a given entity" in the note.
>
>    
>> But I think we came to the conclusion that any rdf property for an entity is regarded as an attribute.
>>      
>
>
>    
>> Isn't it the answer to this issue?
>>      
> I hope that it is. I am comfortable with the phrasing in the DM.
> Any rdf property outside of the prov namespace that describes and Entity is "fixed".
> (as you noted, we can "use" it again, so that would make a new attribute within the prov namespace but that did not affect the partial state.)
>
>
> Does this mean we can close the issue? Do we need the DM to say something further in light of this ISSUE?
>
> Thanks,
> -Tim
>
>
>    
>> Cheers,
>> Luc
>>
>>
>> On 05/03/12 19:13, Timothy Lebo wrote:
>>      
>>> Luc,
>>>
>>> The distinction between characterizing attributes and non-characterizing attributes has faded in the latest versions of the DM.
>>>
>>> Do you still have concerns about being able to find "frozen" attributes for a given entity?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 2, 2011, at 4:52 AM, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> PROV-ISSUE-89 (what-entity-attributes): How do we find the attributes of an entity? [Formal Model]
>>>>
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/89
>>>>
>>>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>>> On product: Formal Model
>>>>
>>>> The conceptual model defines an entity in terms of an identifier and a list of attribute-value pairs. It is indeed crucial for the asserter to identify the attributes that have been frozen in a given entity.
>>>>
>>>> Currently, the ontology does not seem to identify these attributes.
>>>>
>>>> To say that these attributes could be found by looking at all the properties for this entity does not work with an open world assumption.
>>>>
>>>> What mechanism do we have to identify these attributes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>          
>>>
>>>        
>>      
>    
Received on Monday, 5 March 2012 22:15:30 GMT

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