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Re: reviewer feedback on prov-o ontology

From: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:00:23 -0500
Cc: Jim McCusker <mccusj@rpi.edu>, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, Provenance Working Group WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <A00EC455-6216-4FF7-BE9C-5E063215FC4E@rpi.edu>
To: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>
captured in https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/264 ISSUE-264

-Tim

On Feb 23, 2012, at 9:57 PM, Timothy Lebo wrote:

> Then perhaps DM should add the general notion of "Involvements"?
> If encoding DM in OWL led to this natural organization, perhaps it's reflecting something that DM has latently.
> 
> Perhaps this could be added as an "Extension Point": Other kinds of Involvements may be provided for domain-specific purposes, and interoperable tools would handle them at the generic understanding of "Involvement".
> 
> 
> -Tim
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 23, 2012, at 1:53 PM, Jim McCusker wrote:
> 
>> I was thinking that that was more good practice for a software engineering project. I know of quite a number of APIs that support incompleteness already. Jena, Sesame, OWL-API, SuRF... :-)
>> 
>> Really, if a tool will only load information that is complete and throw an exception otherwise, it's given up the opportunity for the tool user to use that tool to fix their data.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Jim,
>> 
>> Nice feature, but I would argue that it is not in scope, because
>> here we would be opening a research topic.
>> Incomplete, uncertain, probabilistic, etc are not in scope.
>> It would require probably a few years more to come up with a Recommendation ;-)
>> 
>> Luc
>> 
>> 
>> On 02/23/2012 03:17 PM, Jim McCusker wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess my point is that implementations should support incomplete knowledge. It should be possible for the implementations to represent (and check) incomplete or otherwise invalid data. This is going to be especially critical to support interchange of scruffy provenance.
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>>> Hi Jim,
>>> I didn't say it was a bug. I said it was not aligned.
>>> 
>>> It's a feature, maybe, but that's not expressible in prov-dm, which means
>>> that other implementations e.g. java, xml, or whatever would not understand that feature.
>>> 
>>> So, from an ontological viewpoint, a nice feature, but one that does not help with
>>> interoperability.
>>> 
>>> Luc
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 02/23/2012 02:21 PM, Jim McCusker wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>> Furthermore, the ontology allows for instances of involvements to be expressed, without
>>>> specifying its subclass (Usage, Generation, etc). This is not aligned with the data model.
>>>> 
>>>> This is a feature, not a bug. Even if Involvement were defined as equivalent to the union of subclasses, it would still be possible (and consistent) to assert that something is an Involvement without saying what the subclass is. We simply wouldn't know. 
>>>> 
>>>> Jim
>>>> -- 
>>>> Jim McCusker
>>>> Programmer Analyst
>>>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
>>>> Yale School of Medicine
>>>> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330
>>>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>>>> 
>>>> PhD Student
>>>> Tetherless World Constellation
>>>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>>>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu
>>>> http://tw.rpi.edu
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Professor Luc Moreau               
>>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487         
>>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865         
>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk  
>>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>>     
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jim McCusker
>>> Programmer Analyst
>>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
>>> Yale School of Medicine
>>> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330
>>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>>> 
>>> PhD Student
>>> Tetherless World Constellation
>>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu
>>> http://tw.rpi.edu
>> 
>> -- 
>> Professor Luc Moreau               
>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487         
>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865         
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk  
>> United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jim McCusker
>> Programmer Analyst
>> Krauthammer Lab, Pathology Informatics
>> Yale School of Medicine
>> james.mccusker@yale.edu | (203) 785-6330
>> http://krauthammerlab.med.yale.edu
>> 
>> PhD Student
>> Tetherless World Constellation
>> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
>> mccusj@cs.rpi.edu
>> http://tw.rpi.edu
> 
Received on Friday, 24 February 2012 03:01:28 GMT

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