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Re: quick comment on Note in ProvRDF mapping

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:31:48 +0000
Message-ID: <EMEW3|72e64d61fa033784ae053792fd7b7660o1CAVp08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4F38E694.9050609@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: James Cheney <jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk>
CC: public-prov-wg@w3.org
Hi James,

On 02/13/2012 10:11 AM, James Cheney wrote:
> Hi,
>
> That was what I thought should be the case in the original version of 
> ProvRDF.
>
> I think the goal is to re-use as much of OWL's annotation 
> infrastructure as possible.  I'm not sure if that will work.
>
> One counter-question:  Do the attributes on hasAnnotation records 
> refer to the annotated thing, the note linked to the annotated thing, 
> or to "the hasAnnotation record itself"?
>
> that is, are the following equivalent:
>
> note(n2,[ex:style="dotted"])
> hasAnnotation(u1,n2)
>
> and
> hasAnnotation(u1,n2,[ex:style="dotted")
>

To me they are *not* equivalent.

> There are no examples in the DM document showing hasAnnotation with a 
> non-empty list of attributes.
>

I think we could subtype the relation hasAnnotation: hasTrustAnnotation, 
hasReputationAnnotation, ...

Luc

> --James
>
> On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:06 AM, Luc Moreau wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Having looked at the ProvRDF mapping, I don't understand
>> the type of note.
>> I was expecting a class Note to be introduced, and the annotation 
>> relation
>> to be allowed for anything identifiable in PROV, so, this means,
>> elements but also relations.
>>
>> Luc
>>
>> On 02/12/2012 10:29 PM, Luc Moreau wrote:
>>> Hi Tim,
>>> Yes we use such notes to also propagate "trust" information
>>>
>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>> Electronics and Computer Science
>>> University of Southampton
>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>> United Kingdom
>>>
>>> On 12 Feb 2012, at 20:54, "Timothy Lebo" <lebot@rpi.edu 
>>> <mailto:lebot@rpi.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there motivation for Notes other than to sneak messages to the 
>>>> visual layer?
>>>>
>>>> note(ann1,[ex:color="blue", ex:screenX=20, ex:screenY=30])
>>>> It seems to me that this is simply data modeling and NOT provenance 
>>>> modeling.
>>>> If it is _only_ data modeling, I think that it should stay out of 
>>>> PROV, which should focus on modeling only provenance.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Underneath the surface of Notes is the age old debate 
>>>> of "characterizing attributes" versus "non-characterizing attributes".
>>>>
>>>> -Tim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 12, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Paul Groth wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Of course you can use constructs however you want. I don't think 
>>>>> Note was intended as such so it seems that discussing this usage 
>>>>> would be out of scope.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why confuse potential adopters of the spec?
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 12, 2012, at 21:15, Daniel Garijo 
>>>>> <dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es 
>>>>> <mailto:dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There was some discussion on the prov-o team about this. "Note" 
>>>>>> could be used for describing provenance
>>>>>> statements in an informal way with custom annotations.
>>>>>> Therefore, IMO some people could use it for metadata provenance 
>>>>>> even if that is not the intention on DM.
>>>>>> For example: I could add annotations about all the usages (since 
>>>>>> the note is about a record) stating who is the author
>>>>>> of that assertion.
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2012/2/12 Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl <mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     I was just having a look through the ProvRDF mappings page:
>>>>>>     http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     In the Note section there is a concern "but NOT for the much
>>>>>>     heavier-duty use that DM offers (meta-provenance)."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     The DM does not use Note for meta provenance so I don't know
>>>>>>     where this is coming from.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     cheers,
>>>>>>     Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Professor Luc Moreau
>> Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
>> University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
>> Southampton SO17 1BJ               email:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> United Kingdomhttp://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>      
>
>
> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>    

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Monday, 13 February 2012 10:32:23 GMT

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